BrindleBoy

No...he's only 7. This started as soon as the meds started. 60mg prednisone/day, now down to 20mg/day (and it's still happening, altho at this point it's less panting and more insomnia). However, I believe it might be also the other drug he is on: Pentoxifylline, which can cause restlessness. He's on a pretty high dose of that 600mg/day, for the systemic vasculitis. I call the vet tomorrow to see if we will lower either drug dose, or maybe replace the prednisone with another autoimmune drug. We'll see. Getting up 4 times a night it getting old (and it's not because he has to pee; he just wakes up out of the blue, panting his head off, and I offer to let him out or give him a treat, then we go back to bed. It's like insomnia 4x/night. And frankly, I don't really KNOW how much sleeping he's actually doing (as opposed to just lying there awake), because I'M sleeping.

A (new) slight wrinkle... As the prednisone dose is lowered (we have been at 40mg all week, down from 50, down from 60), the panting (side effect) has gotten less during the daytime hours. But at night, it's not any better, and may have actually gotten worse! It's like he has insomnia now or something. This dog was always able to settle in for bed at 9:30pm, and not move until 7am. AND not go out to pee until even later (we always offer, the kid has an iron bladder apparently). But the last 3 nights have been awful, he's not been able to settle, sleep for more than an hour at a time, and we have let him out 3 times a night 9 (and he pees every time). I realize prednisone increases thirst and therefore urination, but why would the side effect of restlessness be getting WORSE as the dosage is tapered? I called into my vet, had to leave a message. We'll see if they have any insight...

Just in case anyone finds this thread while looking for information, I'll continue Stevie's progress so maybe people can get a description of what to expect, with the prednisone side effects. His dose was lowered to 40mg/day yesterday, and while he is still panting, and still has problems sleeping at night, every time we lower the dose it seems to get better. Today he has had a "panting episode" only once, altho that usually starts in earnest from 4pm-7pm, and continues until 2am or so. Why it happens more at night IDK, but it is common. he is getting more "like himself" everyday, we will be calling the vet Friday to give him an update, he is planning on lowering the dose to 30mg/day, then Monday I'll take him in for bloodwork (which is more about his condition, not the prednisone of course). Even tho his muscles appear to be about 50% gone in his legs, his liveliness has returned, and his activity level is increasing a bit, as the prednisone dose gets lower. So far so good...

Vet has started the taper, dropped Stevie from 60mg/day to 50mg, we will give him an update via phone today, and he said he will drop it to 40mg/day. Then next week we will do more bloodwork, and he is planning to put Stevie on a different auto-immune drug that does not have the side effects of the prednisone, because he will likely be on it long-term, if not forever. Time will tell. Hoping the side effects of the prednisone lessen @ 40mg/day, as he's not sleeping very well due to the panting at night. As for the muscle wasting, (I did find a study that confirmed my hunch), that showed exercise can minimize/reverse the muscle wasting from prednisone. Kind of a catch-22; he hasn't run since the muscle wasting started; it seems he feels weak.... but I am walking him every day, and he does gallop around the yard, which is still more exercise than he got at the vet the 4 days he was there. At this point, just crossing our fingers the lowered dose helps, the bloodwork is more improved, and the new auto-immune drug (whichever one that is) does not have the side effects of prednisone.

Thanks, yes- the vet did say there were other options if he needed to remain on something long term, other than prednisone. But he kept making the point that because systemic vasculitis can be fatal, he is "blasting it" hard right now. He is supposed to call today with the results of the bloodwork, and I'm praying it's good enough to begin tapering. He's only been on it a single week, and I can't believe how quickly muscle disappears. It's scary. And because the worst of the panting happens in the evenings/overnight, he's not sleeping well. He's been sleeping all day today so far, which is fine. Between the drug side effects (he is also on doxycycline for possible tick borne disease, and pentoxifylline for the vasculitis), and the muscle loss, and the fast breathing and panting, he's likely wore out. We will be walking him twice a day if tolerated (really depends on the heat/humidity: he's already breathing rapidly and panting from the prednisone), as well as giving him plenty of protein and calories in hopes of possibly slowing the muscle wasting And we have stairs that he continues to go up and down a lot, so that should be helpful in keeping those muscles exercised... I swear his haunches are HALF what they were 10 days ago.

Stevie went to the hospital with fluid in his abdomen... long story short, he's been preliminarily diagnosed with auto-immune vasculitis. Not the cutaneous one- systemic vasculitis. Basically the blood vessels become so inflamed they begin to leak fluid into the abdomen. It can be triggered by a vaccination, tick-borne disease, or by nothing at all. He is on 60mg prednisone/day. It's an auto-immune-sized dose, not just an anti-inflammatory one. He's doing pretty well, altho the fast breathing and constant panting are nerve-wracking. He went back for his follow-up today, bloodwork and a scan of the abdomen. Good news, all the fluid is gone. So doc thinks we're on the right track. However, he's lost 10 lbs in only 6 days, and some of that is definitely muscle loss. He won't run anymore, only gallop; muscle weakness is also a side effect. Anyway, the doc has to wait for the bloodwork results (tomorrow), but he made it clear he is not inclined to begin tapering the prednisone, and frankly "didn't care" about the muscle wasting. He was very nice, I don't mean to paint him as unkind or anything- but his view is that "vasculitis can be fatal, so the muscle wasting isn't something I'm worried about right now". It's a very good hospital, very familiar with greyhounds, which is what Stevie is- a retired racing greyhound. Has anyone had any experience with this, and any advice on how to try to minimize the muscle wasting? I can walk him everyday (we do that anyway, altho not over the last 6 days- it has been to hot/humid), and feed him more in hopes of his body attacking his muscle less since I'm giving him more calories??? It's just heartbreaking to see my boy, who loved to run, seemingly not be able to now... and if we don't start cutting the prednisone down, it's only going to get worse... any experiences/advice appreciated.

no no... don't misunderstand. MY dog is not showing signs of pain. As I said, these dogs are stoic. When they have osteo, they could be IN PAIN and you wouldn't even know it... until a bone breaks. Trying to avoid that scenario, when treating an osteo dog with palliative care, when to know when to increase pain meds is a question... and this person said respiratory rate while sleeping was a "tell" as to how much pain they were in. I've never heard that before, altho it does make sense to me, re: autonomic nervous system reaction, and I was wondering if anyone else had heard this.

We (my friend and I) were talking to a greyhound expert the other day... I don't want mention the name, but I'm sure many here have likely heard of them... anyway... We were discussing her (my friend's) GH, who was just diagnosed with osteo. He's 10, so she's going to do palliative care. And the expert said the way to really know how much pain they are in is to watch their breathing as they sleep. That while this stoic breed can hide their pain from us, they can't hide it from their autonomic nervous system. That if you observe them while in a deep sleep, you should count their breaths at only 8-12 per minute. If it gets up to 20, they are in moderate pain. Has anyone else heard of this theory/method? I'm actually asking because MY guy has a permanent limp (broken leg, with appliance and now tendonitis), and I keep an eye on his limp, and rest him when needed.... but I also keep an eye out for a limp that doesn't get better... having a dog with a permanent limp and altered gait can make watching for osteo tricky... so I was wondering if anyone else had been told this "respiration method" of detecting pain levels?