3greytjoys
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Question: Thing is, when I walk Annie - and she walks well - the D ring onto which I attach the leash doesn't stay in the back of the neck. It drops down to the side of her neck, so using a half-chain collar would mean the chain hangs in a tender place on her. Am I not reading this correctly or missing something entirely?
Yes, you are correct. This is a primary reason having steel chain on martingales is not desirable. It's impossible to control how the collar rotates on the dog's neck at all times. The weight of the leash pulls the chain section downward towards the most delicate underside of the neck and throat. There is enough steel chain on the half chain/half fabric martingale to do permanent medical damage to the dog.
Although not mentioned previously, the other issue with the half/half pink martingale collar (pictured above): The two extra D-rings (attached to the chain link) inadvertently invites owners to accidentally latch the leash to the wrong ring (i.e., attach leash to a stationary ring vs, the collar's control D-ring). This greatly increases risks of hounds escaping by slipping out of the collar.
Agree with others that all martingales are meant for outings only. They should never be left on an unsupervised dog. That's why we recommend a separate flat I.D. collar to be worn 24/7 (without any built-in tag ring, and without any tags hanging off of the flat I.D. collar). Only exception is dog should not wear any collar while locked inside a dog crate.
Martingale (with tags attached to the side hardware only, not the control D-ring) can be "parked" while still attached to the leash after outings.
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I understand the differences between full chain choke collars vs. martingales with part webbing and part chain. I can appreciate your point about the half chain tightening to the same measurement as a regular martingale. However, any length of steel chain plus extra D-rings increase risks to dogs. Steel chain is painful when tightened and can damage a Greyhound's delicate neck and/or throat, etc. (Even gentle thumb pressure on a human's throat can be very painful and surprisingly long-lasting. Greyhounds' sensitive necks are similar to humans.)
Per American Veterinary Society of Animal Behavior:
“Choke chains can damage the trachea, especially in the many dogs with collapsing tracheas or hypoplastic tracheas.
They can also occasionally cause Horner’s syndrome (damage to the nerve to the eye).
Some dogs, especially brachycephalic breeds, have developed sudden life-threatening pulmonary edema,
possibly due to the sudden upper airway obstruction leading to a rapid swing in intrathoracic pressure.
And dogs prone to glaucoma may be more susceptible to the disorder since pressure by collars around the neck can increase intraocular pressure.”
Source: https://avsab.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/Punishment_Position_Statement-download_-_10-6-14.pdf
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Per Positively.com, Victoria Stillwell:
"Are choke collars safe?
Even if used without corrections, choke collars can still cause pain, discomfort, and injury to a dog’s neck, head and spinal cord.- If you feel your dog’s neck with your hands followed by your own neck, you will see how similar they are.
- The trachea, esophagus, thyroid gland, lymph nodes, jugular vein, muscles and spinal column are all located in similar places.
- The only difference between a dog and a human neck is that under the fur, a dog’s skin layer is only 3-5 cells thick, while the top layer of human skin is denser, 10-15 cells thick.
What kind of injuries do choke collars cause?
The thyroid gland lies at the base of the neck just below the larynx close to where any collar sits. Just one yank can cause injury to a gland that controls many of the body’s vital functions.- Studies show that the gland gets severely traumatized whenever a dog pulls on the leash and becomes inflamed.
- When this happens it is 'destroyed' by the body’s own immune system which tries to remove the inflamed thyroid cells.
- The destruction of these cells leads to hypothyroidism, which causes loss of energy, weight gain, skin problems, hair loss, ear infections and organ failure.
Choke collars also affect other areas of the body including the eyes.
- Another study reveals that when force is applied to the neck via a leash and a choke collar, pressure in the eyes is significantly increased.
- This type of pressure can cause serious injury to dogs already suffering thin corneas, glaucoma, or eye injuries.
- The same study was done with dogs that were wearing harnesses, which had no impact on eye pressure when force was applied."
Source: https://positively.com/dog-training/methods-equipment/training-equipment/choke-and-prong-collars/
I understand the importance of gentle use of fully soft-webbed martingale collars for sighthound breeds (whose head is smaller than their neck). When I work with new fosters from the track, I use a harness as primary guidance; plus a soft, fully-webbed martingale collar secondarily to prevent escape. It's worked well for hounds who acted like wild stallions to frightened spooks.
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Chain collars, and other metal choke punishment-based collars are specifically against the adoption terms of our Greyhound groups' contracts.
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Welcome back to GreyTalk!
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Dogs can choke themselves much more easily with chain, whether the chain catches on something (cabinet knobs, furniture, things in yard, car, etc.) or dog's own toenail gets caught in the choke chain while scratching his/her neck, ears, head, shoulders. Dogs have caught their own teeth in the chain, not to mention a playmate getting caught up in the chain by the second dog's nails or teeth during play.
It would behoove business owners to have hefty liability insurance for selling these collars.
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Martingales made with fabric only are safer for the health of the dog.
I understand you don't want to use the martingale made with fabric and chain for training purposes, but I'd like to share this for other readers too. We've had two Greyhounds arrive with laryngeal paralysis, likely from previous collar/neck handling damage. (Paralyzed throat/larynx prevents dogs from breathing and eating normally. Throat paralysis progresses until it can eventually suffocate the dog to death from lack of oxygen, or dog can collapse suddenly during heavy exercise if paralyzed throat swells from excessively heavy panting.) I would very, very, very strongly discourage any use of metal chain materials that squeeze/choke the neck. The first thing veterinarians warn LP dog owners is to eliminate neck collars completely. Instead, it's safer to use a body harness (to prevent further damage to the throat and slow progression of throat paralysis). Greyhounds have extremely delicate and sensitive necks that should not be jerked or pulled (e.g. old training methods). Internal neck damage is often not seen immediately but worsens as the dog ages.
We happen to have about 50 fabric martingale collars, and occasionally still use them (very gingerly) on our other healthy hounds (without LP), but prefer harnesses just to be safe.
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She doesn't drink more than 6 cups of water per day (including what I mix with her food).
It has been a really long year and I can easily worry about our Miriam pup when she just looks at me different. Today is actually the one year anniversary of Pogo's amputation
Per most of my vets' suggestions over the years, I'd guess that 6 cups of fluid is fine if she's in a range of 60 pounds. IIRC, lower end of average is 1 cup per 10 pounds of body weight during normal temperatures, light activity, etc.
Sorry you've endured such a difficult year.
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That situation could be considered "predatory drift" in the dog world. Frisbee was an original target but live prey animal was instinctually irresistible.
General rule for dog muzzles: If one dog is muzzled ALL dogs present must be muzzled. (Racing Greyhounds are required to wear muzzles during races for multiple reasons (competition; open mouth or body bump; pack issues, etc.) and during kennel potty turn-outs with multiple hounds inside fenced enclosure.) Here's a link to Greyhound muzzles in USA, (hounds can pant and drink water while wearing this type of open basket muzzle): http://www.gemgreyhounds.org/GEM-Store/kennel-muzzle/
Many Greyhound adoption groups advise adopters: no multi-breed dog parks for retired racing Greyhounds. (Aka: sighthound breed bred for racing/chasing/hunting.) It only takes one perceived underdog, or one squeal for an entire dog pack (all breeds) to join a fight.The safest option is as mentioned above: Greyhound (and/or sighthound) only play dates in a fully fenced enclosure where ALL hounds can be safely muzzled. Greyhounds have paper thin skin that rips wide open more easily than other breeds. Since fenced spaces are a premium in our area, we worked with the city to use a dog park very early on a weekend morning before the public usually arrives. One person stands by the gate to ensure no other dog breeds enter the enclosure. Since dog parks are public, if other breed owners have a problem waiting or returning later, all our Greyhound owners happily gather up the hounds and leave immediately. (Most non-GH owners are understanding since this arrangement protects their own dogs, and they get used to our weekly scheduled time.) We've also gotten permission to use a fenced ball field during off season. (Thorough poop clean-up is important.)
Daily leashed jogs with a human are a great alternative, or friends with a fenced back yard who are willing to muzzle their own dog also or let you exercise your hound solo. There might be lure coursers nearby (must use artificial lures only), but if course is not fenced you run the risk of losing your hound, and your personal financial liability increases if dog is running-at-large (puts humans, pets, and wildlife at risk). Caution: Lure coarsing increases prey drive.( As a cat owner, I would not do any lure coarsing with my hounds.) Good luck.
ETA: I disagree with using any leash or long drag line during frisbee runs. Huge injury risk of dogs dangerously tripping and flipping themselves.
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Hope Tanner is doing well with whatever you've decided to try re: crating or baby-gating.
BTW, I was assuming don't have any cats or other smaller pets right? That would be one very important reason to continue crating for an extended adjustment duration.
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Thinking of your sweet CoCo. Hope she's continuing to improve.
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I'm so sorry for your loss of Fenway... too soon. He will be missed.
Nice to remember the photo of Fenway and Grace patiently awaiting their treats.
The photo of your brother's expression speaks volumes about their mutual affection.
Sad that all of Fenway's littermates have passed. Hope they've reunited for eternal running and romping.
You and your family are in our thoughts through this difficult time.
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Average water/fluid consumption for dogs is approximately 1 ounce per pound of body weight. Needs may increase for active dogs or due to weather, hot indoor home temperature, medications, diet, or too much sodium in treats/food. (Too much sodium is toxic to dogs.)
Examples:
Greyhounds weighing 60 lbs. = 7.5 cups per day
70 pounds = 8.75 cups per day
80 pounds = 10 cups per day
90 pounds = 11.25 cups per day
Our adoption groups recommend adding water to kibble (just enough to cover food) which helps prevent dehydration if hounds don't drink enough on their own.
We provide fresh water daily in a stainless steel bucket (no plastics due to toxic chemicals leaching into water). I fill the bucket half way to help contain drinkers' splashing. Bucket is raised up sitting inside a basket. I change water several times a day now having thirsty geriatric hounds.
Side note re: a post above: Most animal veterinary health and welfare guidelines are to provide pets free access to fresh drinking water at all times. Per the American Veterinary Medical Association, one exception is when attending veterinarians temporarily withhold water during certain hospital medical treatments. (Just because a kennel does something, it doesn't mean it's healthy or safe to promote for others' animals. Withholding water can be deadly in certain circumstances.)
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Agree with baby steps during brief errand trials first. A couple of months usually isn't enough time for Greyhounds' true character to shine. Baby-gating him in his happiest, most familiar room with open door crate with comfy bed while wearing his plastic, basket turn-out muzzle is probably fine. (He will still be able to pant and drink water while wearing his open basket muzzle.)
It will still be very important to baby/dog proof everything in that room (and close doors to other rooms in case he gets beyond the baby gate unexpectedly). Greys are late bloomers, if he's 3.5 years old, that's considered the beginning of maturing from puppy-hood. (BTW, separate flat I.D. collars are recommended since martingale collars shouldn't be left on an unsupervised dog. Martingale's big D-ring can get caught on something causing strangulation.)
A friendly caution: Please keep everything loose put away in drawers/cabinets (medicine bottles, eye glasses, mail, remotes, food, etc.). Many young Greyhounds will try to shred any paper within reach. I knew a Greyhound that died from ingesting a ladies sock.
Good luck and let us know how it goes. Your boy will probably appreciate being able to walk around and stretch, etc.
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Oh no, I'm very sorry for your loss of sweet Sadie.
You will remain in our caring thoughts through this difficult time.
I remember your Sadie. She will be remembered fondly on GT.
Thank you for letting us know about your beloved Sadie's passing.
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I'm so very sorry for your loss of Birdie.
Nice that your mobile vet was available for a home visit for Birdie's comfort.
Hope your ten years of happy memories together will eventually help ease your painfully raw heartache.
May Birdie rest well knowing how much she was loved.
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Positive healing prayers for your Tanzi girl. Sending lots of supportive thoughts your way.
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How would she have been exposed to lead a long time ago?
She might have had lead exposure from ingesting water supplied by old, city mainline lead pipes.
This article is lengthy but includes a U.S. map showing states discovered to have excessive lead contamination.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2016/03/11/nearly-2000-water-systems-fail-lead-tests/81220466/
Hope your home/soil lab test results are clear. If so, if Miriam's racing owner is still living, she might be interested to learn about Miriam's condition since copper and lead is harmful to humans and children. If needed, NGA should be able to provide her contact information. I'm not sure if Miriam was bred in Abeline, KS, but appears she raced in AL and AR, so may have been exposed before arriving in WI.
I'm so sorry Miriam is stricken with this diagnosis. If her test results are accurate, I can't imagine that she would not be feeling affects.
Glad you're living in a newer home. (BTW, tile might be another consideration.)
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This is an excellent link for pets' financial assistance.
Not sure if this might be helpful but Christine Kellogg, DVM relocated to Woodstock, GA. She participated in the Greyhound Heath and Wellness Program headed by Dr. Couto, in Ohio. Just thinking she might be able to refer you to a Greyhound savvy specialist for a second opinion.
Your sweet girl's situation is heartbreaking. I imagine she'll be so glad to see her most beloved person. Our thoughts are with you both.
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The following is about Greyhounds' life before adoption (excerpt from a speaker at a Greyhound seminar):
Thoughts of a Greyhound
By the late Kathleen Gilley
"This breed has never been asked to do anything for itself, make any decisions or answer any questions. It has been waited on, paw and tail. The only prohibition in a racing Greyhound's life is not to get into a fight--or eat certain stuff in the turn out pen.
Let us review a little. From weaning until you go away for schooling, at probably a year and a half, you eat, grow and run around with your siblings. When you go away to begin your racing career, you get your own "apartment," in a large housing development. No one is allowed in your bed but you, and when you are in there, no one can touch you, without plenty of warning.
Someone hears a vehicle drive up, or the kennel door being unlocked. The light switches are flipped on. The loud mouths in residence, and there always are some, begin to bark or howl. You are wide awake by the time the human opens your door to turn you out. A Greyhound has never been touched while he was asleep.
You eat when you are fed, usually on a strict schedule. No one asks if you are hungry or what you want to eat. You are never told not to eat any food within your reach. No one ever touches your bowl while you are eating. You are not to be disturbed because it is important you clean your plate.
You are not asked if you have to "go outside." You are placed in a turn out pen and it isn't long before you get the idea of what you are supposed to do while you are out there. Unless you really get out of hand, you may chase, rough house and put your feet on everyone and every thing else. The only humans you know are the "waiters" who feed you, and the "restroom attendants" who turn you out to go to the bathroom. Respect people? Surely you jest.
No one comes into or goes out of your kennel without your knowledge. You are all seeing; all knowing. There are no surprises, day in and day out. The only thing it is ever hoped you will do is win, place or show, and that you don't have much control over. It is in your blood, it is in your heart, it is in your fate--or it is not.
And when it is not, then suddenly you are expected to be a civilized person in a fur coat. But people don't realize you may not even speak English. Some of you don't even know your names, because you didn't need to. You were not asked or told to do anything as an individual; you were always part of the "condo association"; the sorority or fraternity and everyone did everything together, as a group or pack. The only time you did anything as an individual is when you schooled or raced, and even then, You Were Not Alone.
Suddenly, he is expected to behave himself in places he's never been taught how to act. He is expected to take responsibility for saying when he needs to go outside, to come when he is called, not to get on some or all of the furniture, and to not eat food off counters and tables. He is dropped in a world that is not his, and totally without warning, at that.
Almost everything he does is wrong. Suddenly he is a minority. Now he is just a pet. He is unemployed, in a place where people expect him to know the rules and the schedule, even when there aren't any. (How many times have you heard someone say, "He won't tell me when he has to go out." What kind of schedule is that?) Have you heard the joke about the dog who says, "My name is No-No Bad Dog. What's yours?" To me that is not even funny. All the protective barriers are gone. There is no more warning before something happens. There is no more strength in numbers. He wakes up with a monster human face two inches from his. (With some people's breath, this could scare Godzilla.) Why should he not, believe that this "someone," who has crept up on him, isn't going to eat him for lunch? (I really do have to ask you ladies to consider how you would react if someone you barely knew crawled up on you while you were asleep?) No, I will not ask for any male input.
Now he is left alone, for the first time in his life, in a strange place, with no idea of what will happen or how long it will be before someone comes to him again. If he is not crated, he may go though walls, windows or over fences, desperately seeking something familiar, something with which to reconnect his life. If he does get free, he will find the familiarity, within himself: the adrenaline high, the wind in his ears, the blood pulsing and racing though his heart once again--until he crashes into a car.
Often, the first contact with his new family is punishment, something he's never had before, something he doesn't understand now, especially in the middle of the rest of the chaos. And worst of all, what are the most common human reactions to misbehavior? We live in a violent society, where the answer to any irritation is a slap, punch, kick, whip, or rub your nose in it. Under these circumstances, sometimes I think any successful adoption is a miracle.
He is, in effect, expected to have all the manners of at least a six-year old child. But, how many of you would leave an unfamiliar six-year old human alone and loose in your home for hours at a time and not expect to find who knows what when you got back? Consider that if you did, you could be brought up on charges of child abuse, neglect and endangerment. Yet, people do this to Greyhounds and this is often the reason for so many returns.
How many dogs have been returned because they did not know how to tell the adoptor when they had to go out? How many for jumping on people, getting on furniture, counter surfing, separation anxiety, or defensive actions due to being startled or hurt (aka growling or biting)? So, let's understand: Sometimes it is the dog's "fault" he cannot fit in. He is not equipped with the social skills of a six-year old human. But you can help him."End quote.
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Please very seriously consider teaching him to lie on his own thick, cushy dog beds on the floor. Please do not let him share humans' furniture. If you need to get him to move off humans' furniture, go into another room and happily call him to come to you for yummy treats. Then distract him until you're able to block his access to that piece of furniture. If he refuses to come into a different room for treats, toss yummy treats (or toys if not food motivated) on the floor where he can see them but needs to jump down on the floor to reach the treats. Please do not punish him, and do not scold him if he growls at you. If dogs are scolded for their warning growl, they are more inclined to skip a growl and go directly to a bite to get their communication of serious discomfort across to humans. (From humans' perspective, a dog growling is considered a more desirable form of communicating their displeasure vs. a bite.) If a dog's warnings are repeatedly ignored, they feel the need to intensify their reactions each time.
Please remember that Greyhounds have never had to share their personal space before. Many dogs (any breeds) need undisturbed personal resting space. IME, dogs on humans' furniture has many more cons vs. pros, and it places pet owners and visitors' faces at dog's large mouth level. Better to set dogs up for success with their own warm, cushy dog beds on the floor.
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When our hounds do that, it's usually an invitation to play. We playfully pounce around in a circle, or run into another room encouraging the hounds to chase us.
Two benefits:
1.) It's fun.
2.) Helps to play games encouraging a dog to chase their human vs. human chasing after dog.
Reason: If a dog escapes outside, it helps if the dog's natural response is to run towards a human vs. away from human, so dog can be captured more easily.
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My deepest sympathy to you both for your sudden loss of your sweet Percy.
Bless you for adopting that special and well-deserving boy. Thank you for showing him what may have been the most love and care he'd had in his life. What a difference you made in his life.
(I thought he had come from an awful situation but that is sickening.)
As did many others, I fell in love with Percy from his beginning with you. I understand what you all went through with his later diagnosis of LP, hemangiosarcoma, and excessive bleeding..
Percy will be deeply missed on GT. Our thoughts are with you and your family during this difficult time of loss.
Godspeed Percy.
... May the heavens be filled with screaming monkeys.
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I'm so sorry that cancer had stricken your beloved Riley.
May your precious memories of Riley be kept close in your heart and provide some comfort.
Our thoughts are with you.
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I'm so very sorry for this painful loss of your smart and strong Lou.
Godspeed Lou.
(I sent you a PM.)
:paw 
Ripped Dewclaw
in Health and Medical discussion
Posted
We keep Clotisol at home to stop bleeding on more involved injuries of this nature. Clotisol can be squirted from afar if dog is feeling too sensitive for wound handling. Clotisol is used for tail docking, etc.
One of our hounds was notorious for ripping off nails and dew claws. They grow back so slowly from that stage, it was easier to keep them dremeled/trimmed much shorter. Agree with stopping soaks, and leaving it open to heal, but try to prevent him from licking it. Good luck.
Clotisol: http://www.entirelypets.com/clotisol2oz.html