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duncan41

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    Fearful To The Extreme - August 18, 2015 Pupdate Post #36

    in Training and Behavior discussion

    Posted · Edited by duncan41

    Since Barkley cannot/will not travel, the Veterinary Behaviorist is out of the question.

     

    Yes, the DAP collar, Composure and L-Theanine were tried without success. Barkley would not allow anyone to put a thundershirt on him.

     

     

    My Katie has generalized anxiety. I've had her on Prozac (generic) for years now, and it has made a huge difference. It does take a long time to get to therapeutic levels... I think they recommend giving it at least 4 weeks before you start deciding about whether you need to tweak the dosage or go to a different drug altogether.

     

    What were Katie's symptoms? Was Prozac the first and only medication that was prescribed? Any side effects?

     

    Edited to add: Sorry I did not see the link to the blog about your journey with Katie. I will be reading it with interest!

    Fearful To The Extreme - August 18, 2015 Pupdate Post #36

    in Training and Behavior discussion

    Posted · Edited by duncan41

    It has been almost 4 months since asking for help from the GT contributors who have much more experience than I. I thank those who contributed positive, supportive replies.

     

    Barkley is doing well. He has been taking short walks once a day for about a month and with each walk, he is becoming less focused on me and treats and more aware of the sights, sounds and smells around him. Using my 45 years of pet ownership experience and years of positive reinforcement based obedience classes with my other dogs and lots of love and patience, that terrified boy is becoming more comfortable in a world outside of the walls of our home. He certainly has a long way to go, but I'll take what he gives every day and be thankful. He is never going to be a normal dog. My goal is to make his "normal" the best it can possibly be.

     

    Barkley has had no meltdowns since March. He is becoming more affectionate in his own way, being more open to physical contact such as being brushed, massaged, ear scritches, trimming nails, etc.

    During his journey of healing, Barkley has made it perfectly clear that he will always be anxious, so we sought help from our holistic Vet who agreed that all natural remedies had been exhausted and she prescribed Xanax. I have been experimenting with doses and timing for the past 10 days but am not satisfied with the results. Barkley's anxiety manifests itself in pacing. He has been known to pace for 6 hours non-stop. A 2mg dose of Xanax twice a day knocks him out for 6 to 8 hours and then the pacing begins. The 2mg pills are scored in 2 places, so giving him two segments or 1.3mg twice a day doesn't knock him out but the pacing begins earlier. Increasing the 1.3mg three times a day renders the same results as the full 2mg dose. Is Xanax a medication that takes longer to provide results than some others? My impression is that Xanax was as much for crisis control as for long standing, predictable anxiety. Yes? No?

     

    I am looking for suggestions of other medications currently being used successfully by others for chronic anxiety. What doses, frequency, side effects, etc? Thanking you in advance for your input and for not jumping to conclusions until you have walked a mile in my shoes.

    Fearful To The Extreme - August 18, 2015 Pupdate Post #36

    in Training and Behavior discussion

    Posted

    3 days post behaviorist. AD (the behaviorist) was pretty incredible. The most impressive part of his visit was when would give instructions to us and then describe how Barkley was going to react. Dead on every time. Three quarters of the session was educating the humans about the grey wolf since our dogs share 98+ percent DNA. Pack dynamics, breeding habits to ensure the future of the pack, etc.

     

    We were given specific things to do, modifications in our behavior/reactions to his most annoying attempts to control us and exercises to help him overcome his fear of the leash. Poor boy was so stifled in his first home that when he was surrendered and landed in a foster home where the dad didn't like him and the mom worked long hours, his reaction was to try to be the alpha while dealing with his fear. Two more foster homes welcomed him and added to his confusion before we came along. Our tried and true methods of assimilating a new dog were too relaxed for him, so his fears took over. The falling in the driveway incident with DH sent him over the edge.

     

    I am assuming the role of alpha in baby steps. Barkley is going outside for me with minimal effort. He' not asking to go out yet but I'll take it. And after a couple of corrections is actually not nosing or barking at the bedroom door when he wants to eat at 4 am!!! He is wearing 3 feet of a leash (with the loop removed) when someone is in the house with him and he is not afraid of it. AD explained that while Barkley is attempting to get around the house while dragging the strip of leash and stepping on it, he believes we are controlling him. Interestingly, he doesn't pace while wearing it, which he used to do for hours each day. Now he just goes to bed.

     

    We are a long way from having a dog that will eagerly go for a walk or for a ride in the car, but we have the tools and the continued support of AD to move toward those goals. If you would like to know more about AD, go to www dot rrre-dog dot com.

    Sending A Sign: What Did Your Hounds Do?

    in Remembrance

    Posted

    During the year and a half that Suze was sick, the application of essential oils was a twice daily ritual. It provided special one-on-one time and left our house smelling wonderful. Suze was a welcome visitor to her Vet's office because not only was she smart and compliant, but everyone described her as a walking air freshener and mood booster. The effect was so powerful that the first thing DH said after returning from our Vet's office without our girl was, "Please put the essential oils away." He was so hurt by her loss that the aroma of the oils would have been too much for him to bear.

     

    About 3 days later, I sat down to eat dinner and with each of the first three bites of food, I got an unmistakably strong whiff of lavender essential oil..............not the flowery perfume scent, but the earthy aroma of the particular brand of Lavender essential oil that I had used on Suze from day one. Because I was still numb with grief, it took until that third bite of food to realize what was happening! It was at that second that Fuzz, Suze's litter sister, jumped up and started play bowing all over the place, barking and tail going 90 miles an hour in her signature helicopter movement. Suze's presence was so strong in the room that I felt as if I could reach out and touch her. The experience only last a minute, but left no doubt in my mind that Suze had dropped by to let us know that she was still around.

    Fearful To The Extreme - August 18, 2015 Pupdate Post #36

    in Training and Behavior discussion

    Posted

    Rebecca, I'm wondering if there may be something associated with darkness. Barkley was acting as if he wanted to venture outside again last night, but he acted like if he couldn't see, he wasn't "going there". We'll see if the behaviorist believes it has a physical or emotional cause. Until then, I will ask DH to see if he can lure him out in the dark.

     

    Barkley made another step toward recovery this morning; he woke up from his breakfast induced coma (DH was long gone to Thursday golf) and immediately indicated that he wanted to go out. Without speaking or looking at him, I opened the back door and walked out onto the porch then into the pool area, opening both doors in order to give him a choice. He followed, went out into the yard, walked to his favorite spot and peed a gallon! Good boy!

    Fearful To The Extreme - August 18, 2015 Pupdate Post #36

    in Training and Behavior discussion

    Posted

    I am thrilled to say that the last two days have brought a breakthrough. Barkley is going out to the porch and screen enclosed pool area all on his own. Today he went out in the backyard and peed! Looks like DH is going to be leading the way to Barkley's recovery since he feels most comfortable venturing outside at noon. But, hey! I'll take it.

    The behaviorist comes on the 23rd. Thank you all for your advice and support and please send healing thoughts to this frightened boy.

    Fearful To The Extreme - August 18, 2015 Pupdate Post #36

    in Training and Behavior discussion

    Posted

    I am using Bach Rescue Remedy and will look into Mimulus.

     

    Since my Vet is holistic, she has already told me that Chinese herbs will be her front line of treatment. I have contacted her preferred animal behaviorist and am waiting for a call back.

     

    Once the behaviorist visits and he and Dr Donna confer, I believe we will have a plan. If a complete physical is not on the list, I will make it a priority. First we have to get Barkley to a point where he allows touch or trying to examine him or draw blood will be impossible. I can massage him when he's under the influence of Valerian (at half the low end recommended dose of Animals' Apawthecary, or in other words, 1/4 of a full dose), so I'm hoping that with continued massage, he will regain enough trust to let us help him.

     

    If you could see him when he's not sleeping, you would never know there was anything wrong. Yesterday he was so happy, he had a huge smile on his face and was actually trying to play!

    Fearful To The Extreme - August 18, 2015 Pupdate Post #36

    in Training and Behavior discussion

    Posted

    My Vet is holistic and she recommended magnesium and Valerian. (Jennifer, there are consistent reference to depression in the literature that I found.). Oh, and does it matter that Barkley is raw fed? I added Rescue Remedy this evening. Will be picking up a Chinese herb Monday morning. She also recommended a dog behaviorist that she has worked with for a few years.

     

    Jan, the garage incident happened in broad daylight and the street light is very bright and works fine. We live on the east coast of FL, most utility lines are underground so no overt exposure to EMFs. Our house and neighborhood are very quiet and DH and I are old creatures of habit, all of which has had a positive effect on every animal that has adopted us. This is our second experience with a dog who was never socialized. Anna almost never left her house or yard in 6 years, but in the end, she took to walks like a duck to water. She had other quirks, but nothing like Barkley's.

    Hawthorne, I totally agree with your conclusion regarding the cumulative stress. The challenge is to find a stress buster for a boy who is afraid of the world.

     

    Chris, I have been on both sides of the hypothyroid issue with a couple of dogs, one who was treated, one who was not although, behavior was not the driving force. I tend to not treat unless there are clinical symptoms. I remember hearing Dr. Couto saying that he treats dogs, not blood test results.

     

    Thank you and please keep the ideas coming coming!

    Fearful To The Extreme - August 18, 2015 Pupdate Post #36

    in Training and Behavior discussion

    Posted

    Thanks, Jan, Marla, Rebecca, Hawthorn and Chris!

     

    The leashes and the harness have been out to see, sniff and taste if necessary for a couple of weeks, I am not a big fan of putting the leash on and having any dog drag it around, but I did do it one evening. Barkley was suspicious and annoyed, but eventually laid down and went to sleep. The flight/fright reaction only happens when the leash is used for its intended purpose; to lead. But that still doesn't explain the garage incident and the light post incident. One during the day and one at night. One with DH and one with me.

     

    Google searches can be a huge help or a little dangerous and for me, very frustrating when it comes to things like "magnesium deficiency in dogs". The literature all points to symptoms of muscle weakness, pain and/or control issues. Cardiac problems are mentioned second most often and depression is down the list. Is that not the case with Greyhounds?

     

    I contacted my Vet by email this morning. She does make house calls, so it's only a matter of when she can make it. Cross your fingers that it's today or tomorrow.

     

    Can we keep this conversation going? Your ideas and input are helping me organize my thoughts. Thank you so much!

    Fearful To The Extreme - August 18, 2015 Pupdate Post #36

    in Training and Behavior discussion

    Posted

    The extreme behavior is less than 30 days old. We recognized Barkley's quirks right from the start and eased him into all new activities and if he displayed the slightest bit of anxiety, we could make adjustments to encourage a positive outcome.

    He was making some real progress when the irrational fears began for absolutely no reason, no trigger, no connection to an event.

    Can't take him anywhere to be checked out - he freaks out the minute we attempt to guide him with the leash. He would be perfectly happy to live out his days in the house, never going outside again, peeing and pooping where ever and when ever the need strikes. Is that a reasonable/rational way to live?

    What anti-anxiety meds work best with these guys? How many med changes did it take before the right one was found? Is there special dosing considerations for these guys like there are with other meds?

    How much magnesium would be a good starting dose? Barkley weighs 78 pounds.

     

    Thank you for your input! Please chime in with any/all suggestions!

    Fearful To The Extreme - August 18, 2015 Pupdate Post #36

    in Training and Behavior discussion

    Posted · Edited by duncan41

    Barkley is 11 years old and has been with us for 7 months. Surrendered thru no fault of his own, he is deteriorating into a fearful mess. He has had some very odd habits from day 1 but over the past month, he has deteriorated to the point where he doesn't want to leave the confines of the house.

     

    He was always an only dog, owned by an older couple in a planned community that did not allow fences. From his behavior with us, it is clear that he was only walked around the perimeter of the lot on which his home sat. It took him about 6 weeks to break out into a gallop in our small yard!

    He has been oblivious to Fuzz, our 11 year old whom we have had since she was 2 years old and by oblivious I mean that he has walked over her, on her and has tried to lay down on her on one of the two identical beds! When he is around other greyhounds, he insulates himself as if to pretend that he is alone. He has been exposed to the same two Greyhounds many times in the past 7 months but has never acknowledged their presence.

     

    I walk the dogs in the dark, morning and late night . DH walks them at noon and after dinner. The first fear response occurred during a noon walk. The two dogs and DH usually walk out the door from the house, through the garage, down the driveway and off they go. Upon returning, the reverse pattern, up the driveway, through the garage and into the house. One day, Barkley refused to walk back into the garage and by "refused", I mean screaming, and pulling away with a wild, crazed look in his eyes and acting as if his life depended on getting away! He refused to walk into the garage for a week, then just as suddenly, he resumed the old pattern with no reaction at all.

     

    The second incident was during the last walk of the night. There is a street light on the easement at the end of our lot line. 99.9% of the time, Fuzz will walk to the left of the light post, looking for fish that the osprey drop, before continuing on across the street. One night about 3 weeks ago, Fuzz walked to the right of the light post and Barkley had a total meltdown - screaming, pulling back, acting as if he was going to die! I hadn't even put any tension on the leash - just took one step and said, "Ok, let's go!" just as I do all the time.

     

    The third incident was truly traumatizing for him. 10 days ago, Barkley and DH became caught in his leash while walking down the driveway. They both fell with Barkley frantically, hysterically screaming while trying to stand up. Thank goodness neither one was injured! But since then Barkley wants nothing to do with the leash, and doesn't want to leave the house. Treats worked for a while to entice him to go out in the backyard, then cheese, then liver brownies, but today as of lunchtime, he refused to leave the house for DH. He peed on a hospital bed pad 3 times (thank heavens for small favors), pooped three times, ate part of that and walked in it, smearing it all over the floors while DH was outside working around the house.

     

    Barkley has been vetted 4 times in the past year and after getting rid of hook and giardia, have cleared up his mis-diagnosed "colitis", switched his food to raw and have given him the best retirement that we are able to give. Except for the "colitis" and losing 11 teeth in the past year, Barkley is in very good health on paper and appears to be much younger than his 11 years.

     

    A training company that has worked with another Greyhound group near us for over 20 years is sending a representative out to the house Tuesday afternoon. I don't know what we are going to do until then. We are playing soothing music, diffusing essential oils, and giving massages to maintain contact and hoping to regain his trust. Help, please! Barkley is miserable and it is breaking our hearts!

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