Osteo Thread Part 9

[greysmom]

It's time to start another thread as we come near to 50 pages on the previous thread.

 

Below is information to help you make choices for yourself and your family, originally posted and collected by NeylasMom.

 

This is the fifth sixth seventh eighth ninth in a series of threads. The original was started by a few people whose pups were diagnosed around the same time in July of 2010, but it appears it has grown into an ongoing thread that will provide both information and emotional support for anyone who has dealt with losing a pup to osteo, is currently caring for a pup diagnosed with osteo, has one that has been newly diagnosed, or worries they may have to deal with it in the future. You do not have to have a pup that currently has osteo to join in this thread - feel free to stop by if you've ever lost a pup to osteo or other cancer, would like to offer support to those currently dealing with this disease, would like to prepare yourself for the possibility of dealing with this, or if your pup has been diagnosed recently. We've even had a person or two join in whose pups were diagnosed with other forms of cancer. Basically, anyone is welcome although we'd prefer there be no reason to have to welcome anyone or for this thread to exist at all.

 

General Websites (These have not been updated recently and so may not reflect current thinking and research, but are a good place to begin):

 

Bone Cancer Dogs site - An excellent place to start to get general information about osteo, treatment options, etc.

http://www.bonecancerdogs.org/
Journal article on pain mgt - Technically an article on using radiation for palliative (pain management) care, but includes a good overview of the
types of bone cancer pain and the various ways to treat it including medications, radiation, and IV pamidronate).

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1482437/
Dog Cancer Blog - Blog from Dr. Dressler, a vet who has dedicated himself to cancer treatment in dogs - includes lots of useful information via blog posts, as well as a link to purchase his book (which covers all aspects of cancer care, both holistic and traditional) in a downloadable format.

http://www.dogcancerblog.com/

 

 

The previous osteo threads, the original http://forum.greytalk.com/index.php/topic/258306-osteo-diagnosis/

and part II http://forum.greytalk.com/index.php/topic/267277-osteo-thread/

With over 100 pages of useful information and support, this is a good place to get specifics if you are wondering about a specific holistic regimen one of us used, the decision making process for choosing amputation or palliative care, etc.

 

For inspiration and some laughs: Winslow's diary http://forum.greytalk.com/index.php/topic/169522-winslows-diary/

 

For those considering amputation, BigOrangeDog's blog about what to expect. https://minnesotagreyhounds.wordpress.com/what-to-expect-with-a-leg-amputation/

 

 

Yahoo groups where you can go for information and support (These are closed groups but they appear to be active):

Dog Bone Cancer Group - not greyhound specific, but a good source of information and support specific to osteosarcoma

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/bonecancerdogs/info
Circle of Grey - a greyhound specific support group for owners of pups dealing with all kinds of health issues

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/CircleofGrey/info?yguid=278897955
Artemisinin and Cancer - for those who would like to pursue artemisinin as part of their treatment regimen, neither greyhound nor osteo specific
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/artemisinin_and_cancer/info


Unfortunately, the Greyhound Health and Wellness Program at OSU has been discontinued. They may be continuing to send out free chemotherapy for the time being, this is not clear from the information on their website. Here is the address for the new website if you would like to contact them.
http://vet.osu.edu/vmc/companion/our-services/greyhound-program

 

Dr Guillermo Couto has moved and begun his own consulting business for greyhounds with cancer. If you join the Greyhound Health Initiative they will do 1/2 price consults and (possibly) be able to send free chemo drugs. Here is the web address for his new site:

http://www.coutovetconsultants.com/for-ownersadopters/

 

Greyhound Health Initiative (Hope 4 Hounds)

http://www.greyhoundhealthinitiative.org/

AVMA ANIMAL HEALTH STUDIES DATABASE

This site has a searchable database of all research studies being conducted investigating treatments or doing research.

https://ebusiness.avma.org/aahsd/study_search.aspx?utm_source=vanity&utm_medium=findvetstudies&utm_campaign=aahsd&utm_term=print&utm_content=javma

 

Here is a link to Charlie'sDad's blog about their cancer fighting regimen - Charlie survived an incredible 4 years following his amputation using these natural foods and supplements.
http://pinneyandpnut...ancer-diet.html

[Guest MnMDogs]

Thanks for continuing this.

 

Jen - Macy is doing ok, but it's really hard not knowing for certain there is cancer. I can only tell that she can't do things she used to be able to, like get on the couch, and she's having a harder time lifting her back legs to get up 1 or 2 stairs. She's also spending a lot more time laying on the floor vs. her beds, and it's hard for her to get up and down. These are also all things that Mork had issues with with his LS, except he could always get on the couch. I think the difference is that she is used to jumping on, and he would methodically step up, taking as much time as needed to work his back legs up there. I also think the old couch was lower.

 

Anyway, she still gets excited to go for walks, but they're very slow. She's always been very vocal, and that hasn't changed, but she doesn't seem to be vocalizing in pain. Of course, Matty was very vocal and the only time she vocalized in pain with her diagnosis, was when the vet actually squeezed her knee where the tumor was. It's been 1 month since she first showed signs of a change - she didn't go on the couch when we visited my parents on July 22 (amazing how these dates stick out).

 

Ryan built her a ramp that she is afraid of (that's my girl, she hates new things), but hopefully will get used to it with gentle coaxing and praise.

 

I've contacted an in home euthanasia vet, and right now I desperately miss my CA vet who was their primary vet and also made house calls, including euthanasia. We're certainly not at that point, but I don't want to be at that point and have no options. When I speak to the vet, I'm going to discuss her pain management regimen and also mention amantadine.

 

Thank you for asking, I know you have a whole lot on your mind and plate as well.

 

Lori - I hope you're doing ok, and that Cecil had a peaceful passing.

Edited August 23, 2016 by MnMDogs

[teri_d]

Part 9 - wow. Remembering:

Flash

Charlie

Sirocco

Anubis

Chase

Jasmine

Neyla

Rivie

 

The original osteo dogs diagnosed around the same time in 2010 who's humans started this thread for info, support and friendship. I check in on you all almost daily and keep you in my prayers..............

[turbotaina]

Jen, glad you had a good evening with your boy. The mobile vet sounds absolutely awesome. Glad you were able to meet with her

[greysandmollie]

Jen...evidently we are going to stalk you in this thread now... Glad you were able to get someone to the house for consultation. Hope today is a better day for Zuri....

[NeylasMom]

Stalk away. I appreciate that you guys care enough to check in.

 

Glad Macy is doing well overall. The not knowing would be really tough for me so I can certainly understand that. Regarding the couch, Zuri continued to jump into the couch for a while after his diagnosis, but was already beginning to struggle with jumping into the car, which I guess was higher. I think with the decreasing exercise as a result of his cancer, he lost more muscle tone and eventually stopped getting on the couch. Its one thing that really still bums me out because we often snuggled together, but I have been finding other ways to do that on his beds on the floor. Its not the same though. We used to snuggle up for naps alongside each other.

 

 

Chris, could you add this link to the original post? Its one of the best I've found regarding oral medication options with details about dosing that seem more appropriate for cancer:

http://www.vasg.org/newer_options_for_chronic_pain_management.htm

 

Lori, thinking of you.

 

 

Quick Z update - he's still feeling good, but the Gabpentin is definitely causing some noticeable back leg stuff. I'm an idiot. The vet and I discussed how to increase dose moving forward gradually, and I started to ask about how to do that in this case, but stopped myself because it was a schedule change, not a dose change. But duh, the answer is to lower the dose on some of them. So he was getting 3x400mg, which is 1200 total. I went to every 6 hrs so instead of doing 4x400, which is 1600, I should have done 4x300-400 with only one or two doses at 400 to start. So I had this revelation after his morning dose do I'm going to only do 300 at his afternoon dose. Annoyed because I would have prefered to cut the AM back, but this is the stupid stuff I tend to do.

 

In other news, one application of hydrocortisone before bed has made a huge difference to the butthole. Zuri hasn't tried to lick since. We're Epsom salt soaking right now and then I'll reapply. I'm worried about when I have to leave to teach tonight but hopefully it's feeling so much better by then he's not interested in it. But it's amazing that I had convinced myself it was something more serious and indicative of his body quitting on him and was factoring that into my euthanasia decision. Very glad I decided to just find out what was actually going on.

Edited August 23, 2016 by NeylasMom

[NeylasMom]

Zuri and I shared scrambled eggs for breakfast this morning:

 

[Guest Roux]

:D Jen, it really made my heart happy to watch Zuri enjoy his eggs! Thank you for sharing! He is such a lovely boy, and I really am totally smitten by that beautiful white face. Gotta admit I have a serious soft spot for those black greys.

 

I'm sure you will get the meds all sorted out. Maybe you can post your full schedule when you do?

 

Thanks for continuing this.

Jen - Macy is doing ok, but it's really hard not knowing for certain there is cancer. I can only tell that she can't do things she used to be able to, like get on the couch, and she's having a harder time lifting her back legs to get up 1 or 2 stairs. She's also spending a lot more time laying on the floor vs. her beds, and it's hard for her to get up and down.

Ryan built her a ramp that she is afraid of (that's my girl, she hates new things), but hopefully will get used to it with gentle coaxing and praise.

 

Although I came in late to the last Osteo thread, I would also like to give my thanks for continuing this. It was invaluable to me as we faced our first osteo diagnosis with Crouton. I really needed the wide range of perspectives and experiences that reading back allowed, especially those who told me that all cases are different with some greys living only days or weeks, and others even managing well for years. Instead of making me gun-shy, having this knowledge has given me even more determination to continue to adopt greyhounds because I feel better equipped to handle whatever may come. I am very thankful for Greytalk!

 

Carol, it must be very difficult to be in your position with Macy. I do hope you are able to know exactly what you are dealing with soon. It sounds like you have had to manage some other serious illnesses with your other hounds, most recently Matty? So sorry to know you must be hurting.

 

We also built a ramp down our two front steps for Crouton right after her diagnosis. The first time my DH tried to lead her down the ramp, she was so spooked that she jumped sideways off the porch into the groundcover! Thankfully, I was not there to see it or I would probably have had cardiac arrest on the spot. After that, we held her very close on-leash until she got used to it, which only took a day or so. Then it was apparent she was very grateful to use it.

 

Lori, still thinking about you today.

Edited August 23, 2016 by Roux

[greysmom]

Jen, I can't edit my post anymore, so I will try and remember to put that link in for the next version.

[NeylasMom]

Instead of making me gun-shy, having this knowledge has given me even more determination to continue to adopt greyhounds because I feel better equipped to handle whatever may come. I am very thankful for Greytalk!

So last night I said to the in-home vet, I really need Violet not to get osteo because I really can't handle 3 dogs in a row and her response was, "But you're so good at it." I appreciate that she has a sense of humor.

 

Honestly though, please no. Though of course I imagine any terminal illness or cancer is tough to deal with. I happen to think osteo is particularly nasty, but it's also the only thing I've had to deal with - other than Cisco's mouth cancer, but that wasn't a case of managing his treatment because once I learned he had it, I knew I had to let him go. Anyway, all of that to say that I think it's impressive that you have that perspective after going through this with Crouton. Shows how strong of a person you are.

 

I'm glad you enjoyed seeing him eat his eggs. I happen to think he is the handsomest man around, especially now that he's so white, but I may be biased. I'll have to dig up an old photo from when I adopted him. He was jet black, you won't even recognize him.

 

ETA: Here he is. My boy, not even 2 years old yet

Jen, I can't edit my post anymore, so I will try and remember to put that link in for the next version.

Cool, thanks.

Edited August 23, 2016 by NeylasMom

[Guest Roux]

Oh my! What a look that could steal any heart! Zuri still looks like such a puppy at almost 2. I am not surprised he continues to be such an active boy.

 

The truth is, I have had to deal with a couple of pretty protracted end-of-life issues with dogs before. Our first two whippets, Biscuit and Petey, had very different ailments in their older years, but they were both intense. Biscuit died of Lymphoma of the small intestine. The vets kept thinking a new combination of meds might make a difference. I was already having to force feed him, and I wanted to let him go on a Saturday, but a younger vet convinced me to try "just one more treatment" over the weekend. Our regular vet was out of town until the next week. It was the worst decision I ever made, and I will never go against my better judgement with another dog. We said goodbye to Biscuit the following Monday. The last two years of his life, Petey started having seizures of the "grand mal" type and was diagnosed with a brain tumor. They were relatively infrequent at first, but he would be so frightened when he regained consciousness, and sometimes lost control of his bladder and bowels. I would hold him and reassure him, and then he would sleep a bit and be fine. Later in his life, his seizures became more frequent, and he began to have muscle wasting in his rear end. We knew much better when to say goodbye to Petey, and were thankfully not "a day late" like we were with Biscuit. We lost both boys when they were 12 years old.

 

So, I certainly hope I never have to deal with osteo again, or any other cancer or terminal disease. But, then I think about all the greyhounds waiting to have their first forever home. I mentioned earlier that I planned to wait until mid-October for our next greyhound, but then I think maybe I won't be able to wait that long. And, why would I want to make a greyhound just off the track, or just off the farm, wait an extra month to live with their forever family – especially if that greyhound may have a limited future? I dunno, maybe I am just a little crazy, but it just makes sense to me.

 

Yes, being "so good at it" is hardly a recommendation for doing it again. Paws crossed we won't ever have to!

Edited August 23, 2016 by Roux

[turbotaina]

Jen, Zuri is so polite. Mine would have knocked you over and stolen the plate

 

Roux - I nearly named my first greyhound Biscuit. I ended up naming him Turbo. We were joking when he came off the track - he was a big white boy with a red ear and some light red ticking and at the track he was called Whitey. So when we brought him in, the adoption group said we can't call him Whitey, it sounds kinda racist. So I said we should call him Cracker Then I adopted him I seriously thought of naming him Cracker, which made me think of Biscuit (which is cute)

Edited August 23, 2016 by turbotaina

[NeylasMom]

Mer, someone commented on that on my cheeseburger video too. He's always been very gentle about taking treats and food, at least that I can remember.

[llm51807]

Just checking in. It didn't go as smoothly as I'd hoped. He struggled against the injection of the sedative and was very vocal about it. Traumatic for all of us, really. In hindsight, I actually think he would have done better at the vet's office where he was used to be needle-stuck and prodded. Once the sedative started to kick in we had a very peaceful 20 minutes or so with him as he drifted to sleep. I'm heartbroken, but relieved he's no longer in pain. As you all know this last week was really tough. He still managed to eat steak and ice cream until the very end, though. Forever my chow hound.

Jet jumped into bed with me after Geno got up this morning and he curled up next to me and put his head on my chest just like Cecil always did. Jet rarely gets onto the bed, so I was so happy he came up. He's been off his food and vomited yesterday; he's been acting like he's afraid. I know he knows something is wrong and has known, but I was concerned this was related to the bee attack on Saturday, so I took him in today for a check. He did eat a little this morning and drank a little and took treats from our vet. Vet said his vitals were all good, but we drew blood to make sure it's nothing worse. Please, please, please, nothing worse.

My heart is aching and I feel like someone punched me in the gut. Our bond was very strong. I'm trying to reflect and gather my thoughts so I can make posts like this, and maybe here in the Remembrance section, and certainly on Instagram where Cecil had so many fans and friends. But the eloquence isn't coming. I'm hurt and sad, a little angry and feeling guilty too. And I'm not feeling very philosophical about it. Just raw.

Life goes on like it does and I don't have much time to sit around and cry. The last few weeks of hospice care for Cecil took up so much of my time and attention, I now have some catching up to do with work. And I need to make sure my sweet Jet boy is okay too. Our day has been so quiet. Cecil was quite routinized and to be honest, rather demanding when it came to what was going to happen and when it was going to happen. If you did it once and he liked it, you better be ready to do it again forever after and at that same time everyday. If not, he'd use his telepathic greyhound powers to will you into it! Jet just kind of goes with the flow. This new rhythm is a big change for our home, and that's in addition to just plain missing Cecil's supremely handsome face. I work from home and he was my shadow; even when he hurt, he'd get up and follow me into the other room.

Jen, I am so rooting for Zuri. He seems so happy and he really is a handsome man. I love the gray faces. Jet is getting more and more gray every day and will surely look much like Zuri in a few years. His young man photo is just stunning. What a looker! Glad the consult with the at home vet went well. Thankfully some of Zuri's peripheral problems seem to be under control. We all talk about pain and quality of life around here, but I can imagine an itchy butt is no fun especially when you've got other things going on too!

Roux, thanks for continued stories about your current and past pack. Your conversation today with Jen about being good hospice caregivers brings me some perspective. I think I'm pretty good at it as well, at least in the moment. Right now though I feel like a bomb went off inside me. Honestly, Roux, I'm hoping you rush right out and adopt another. You are obviously fabulous greyhound parents and I simply cannot wait to see what name you choose for your next greyhound family member!

And thanks to all those coming into the thread checking in on us and sending good thoughts. I can't tell you all how much it means to me.

[turbotaina]

 

...

My heart is aching and I feel like someone punched me in the gut. Our bond was very strong. I'm trying to reflect and gather my thoughts so I can make posts like this, and maybe here in the Remembrance section, and certainly on Instagram where Cecil had so many fans and friends. But the eloquence isn't coming. I'm hurt and sad, a little angry and feeling guilty too. And I'm not feeling very philosophical about it. Just raw.

 

I'm very sorry for your loss. It's always a gut punch, even when you know it's coming I don't think I ever did Turbo justice in his remembrance thread. One day I had him, the next day I did not. It's 5 years now and still painful, but no longer raw. Take your time.

Mer, someone commented on that on my cheeseburger video too. He's always been very gentle about taking treats and food, at least that I can remember.

 

He has been I don't remember him ever being grabby. Unlike some dogs we know

[NeylasMom]

 

If you did it once and he liked it, you better be ready to do it again forever after and at that same time everyday. If not, he'd use his telepathic greyhound powers to will you into it!

This put a huge smile on my face. Love imagining him demanding things from you. Zuri barks (loudly and at a very high pitch) when he needs something. I liken him to a baby - if he's hungry or has to pee or poop he barks. His newest is when he wants to lay on a certain bed, but something like a food bowl or kong is in his way. So I guess we can add tired to the list. Anyway, I love that he and Cecil had that routine/demand thing in common.

 

Thanks for checking in and sharing when you're feeling so raw. I can totally feel your pain through your words and my heart breaks for you. I've been there and it's so tough. Just try to get through today, and then the next day. At some point something will bring you a small amount of joy again. Please don't hesitate to post in here as often as you need. I was never able to write remembrance posts for Neyla or Cisco. It really upsets me that I never did it for Neyla. She was my first dog and my heart dog, but I just could never do it so I will totally understand if you can't, or need to wait.

 

And I sincerely hope nothing more serious is going on with Jet. Please let us know when you get the blood work results. I imagine it's been a very stressful time period for all so he may just need some time to adjust to the new normal as well.

 

 

Miriam, I think you should add a new family member as soon as you are ready! Everyone's timeline is different.

 

He has been I don't remember him ever being grabby. Unlike some dogs we know

I have no clue of whom you speak.

[Guest Roux]

 

Just checking in. I'm heartbroken, but relieved he's no longer in pain.

Jet jumped into bed with me after Geno got up this morning and he curled up next to me and put his head on my chest just like Cecil always did. Jet rarely gets onto the bed, so I was so happy he came up. He's been off his food and vomited yesterday; he's been acting like he's afraid. I know he knows something is wrong and has known, but I was concerned this was related to the bee attack on Saturday, so I took him in today for a check. He did eat a little this morning and drank a little and took treats from our vet. Vet said his vitals were all good, but we drew blood to make sure it's nothing worse. Please, please, please, nothing worse.

Life goes on like it does and I don't have much time to sit around and cry. The last few weeks of hospice care for Cecil took up so much of my time and attention, I now have some catching up to do with work. And I need to make sure my sweet Jet boy is okay too. Our day has been so quiet. This new rhythm is a big change for our home, and that's in addition to just plain missing Cecil's supremely handsome face.

 

It is so good to hear from you, Lori, as we have all been holding you in our hearts and understanding what you are going through. So very sorry for the pain you feel in relieving Cecil's pain. It is a trade-off of sorts, isn't it? I know what you mean about the huge change in rhythm in your home, and do hope you will find a way to settle into different routines soon.

 

You mention Jet's behavior change by his joining you on the bed and curling up next to you. Niels and Pi had both been very subdued until yesterday. We have been doing our best to give both of them lots more attention since last Wednesday, and I have been making sure the tone of my voice is upbeat (when I can remember). Because Niels is so large, there are places in the house where he chooses to back-up rather than try to turn. In fact, he has learned to go backwards faster than many other dogs can go forwards (even around corners), which can be a little terrifying for a 95 lb athlete on stilts. When Crouton was with us, occasionally Niels would suddenly do one of his rocket-propelled back-ups and I would shout at him not to hit Crouton, who was standing behind him. Naturally, that just made him not have any idea what I wanted, and think he was being scolded. I would immediately tell him everything was okay, etc., but I know the change in my behavior worried him. I think it took until yesterday for him to know that he was still "in the club". He showed his relief by throwing and squeaking his biggest stuffies, and playing with Pi, which he really hadn't done in weeks.

 

All the above just to wonder out loud how much our canine family members – Jet, Niels, Pi, Violet, others – suffer with us, and for how long. I am really, really hoping, with you, that there is nothing physically wrong with Jet. Please let us know what your vet says about the bloodwork.

 

As someone else said, yes, this thread is a tough place to be.

Edited August 23, 2016 by Roux

[Guest MnMDogs]

Lori - I'm so sorry to hear that Cecil's passing wasn't as you'd hoped. It's heartbreaking regardless, but with his distress... I can't even imagine how you must feel.

 

Jen - Zuri is such a sweet old gentleman! I'm with you, I love the gray faced black houndies, there's something just so regal and lovable about them. I hope he's continuing to have good days.

 

Roux - Matty was my first greyhound and she died over 7 years ago at 9 years old. Her progression from diagnosis to euthanasia was very fast, 6 days. Mara died a year later after developing megaesophagus at age 8(this one hurts more than I can explain), and Mork died just 2 and a half years ago at 14 and a half. He didn't have bone cancer, but he had chronic issues from an early age. Macy is on all the meds that he was on, with the exception of amantadine which I just called my vet about now.

 

I spoke with an in home euthanasia vet last night. I don't think it's time, but I want to be ready when it is. I'm still in a bit of denial so I won't go into every little detail, but I don't see how this can be anything but cancer. We started Artemisinin and Butyrex (boy does that smell), and hopefully we can get amantadine added quickly to help with pain control.

 

I absolutely cannot elicit any signs of pain from her, but it's obvious she is favoring that back right more and more, and she's nothing if not stoic.

[Guest Roux]

Roux - Matty was my first greyhound and she died over 7 years ago at 9 years old. Her progression from diagnosis to euthanasia was very fast, 6 days. Mara died a year later after developing megaesophagus at age 8(this one hurts more than I can explain), and Mork died just 2 and a half years ago at 14 and a half. He didn't have bone cancer, but he had chronic issues from an early age. Macy is on all the meds that he was on, with the exception of amantadine which I just called my vet about now.

 

I spoke with an in home euthanasia vet last night. I don't think it's time, but I want to be ready when it is. I'm still in a bit of denial so I won't go into every little detail, but I don't see how this can be anything but cancer.

 

I absolutely cannot elicit any signs of pain from her, but it's obvious she is favoring that back right more and more, and she's nothing if not stoic.

 

Carol, thank you so much for sharing your past experiences with other beloved greys, and your current worries about Macy. I do understand the urge not to know.

 

It has been one week this evening since we had to say goodbye to Crouton, and there are still things I cannot bear to put away. Her medicines are still in the kitchen windowsill, the comforters I used to roll-up around her beds to make sure she had a comfy place to rest her head and back still lie on the love seat, her collar is still on the kitchen table next to where I sit. One day I will be able to address these things, but not yet.

 

Our Too Brief History with Osteosarcoma

 

For anyone who has not been through osteo with their grey, but may be facing it, I will give you my brief "look-back" over the very subtle signs Crouton gave us that had no specific meaning at the time. I am going to keep this "clinical", and not add in the countless character traits that made us fall hopelessly in love with her. My apologies for the length, but hope it might help someone.

 

Crouton was an ex-racer with 86 races to her credit, then a brood-mom with at least three litters and 24 registered offspring. She turned 7 years old in January of this year. When we adopted her in October of 2015, there was no evidence of anything wrong with her gait or weight-bearing under normal circumstances. However, we have a few steps from the deck to our backyard, and we did notice she never put her right rear foot down when descending steps. Our wonderful adoption agency contacted her trainer, and was told that other than the usual bumps, Crouton had never had any major injury to that leg. As we got to know her, we noticed that she seemed a little "clumsy", but since her way of being affectionate was to bump you with her nose, we just thought it was part of her personality. In the first six months of this year, she stumbled twice on the stairs. The first time, in January 2016, she opened a place on the lower part of her right front leg, which needed stitches. I saw that injury happen and she was running very fast when she hit the stairs. It healed completely and there was no apparent issue with her walking/running. Then again in mid-March, she ran up the stairs, and came in with a similar tear on the back of her right hind leg, midway between the foot and hock. This was also stitched, but was very tight, and some of the lower stitches did not hold. The wound healed reasonably well, but we still had some issues with healing. Even with this, everything else looked fine. She was energetic, running, easily/quickly getting up and down, and just as she always had been. (BTW, we have never had another dog injure itself on our stairs in over 32 years.) After that, no more injuries, so we just wrote it off to getting better at stairs.

 

Now to the symptoms that perhaps I should have seen more clearly.

 

In mid-June, Crouton started getting up from her bed a little more slowly in the mornings. Nothing major, just a little more labored in the back end. As soon as she was up and had stretched, everything was fine. We just assumed it might be a bit of arthritis or age (like me), and planned to be watchful in case she needed to be on an anti-inflammatory. Nothing more until July 12, when she ran back into the house with a dead field rat in her mouth (!) as a gift. You can imagine all the rapid twists and turns catching something that small took. It was no great surprise when she was limping a little the next morning. We called the vet and started 8 days of Rimadyl with the plan to watch and take her in if it did not improve. Until the end of the 8 days, the limp was minor enough that it was even difficult to tell which hind leg was bothering her, but it became apparent it was the left after about 6 days (quite a surprise since she always favored her right hind leg going down stairs).

 

On July 22, we took her to the vet for x-rays, when Crouton got the diagnosis of osteosarcoma, distal femur. The tumor was clearly visible, already bulging through the cortical bone on both sides. Despite our best efforts, Crouton told us it was time to go just under one month from her diagnosis.

 

This was our experience, and I am so happy that many other hounds are able to receive treatments that allow them to have many good months, and even years past diagnosis. If this helps someone find osteosarcoma earlier than we did, it will have been worth it.

[Guest Sportingfields]

My heart breaks for anyone, ever that has had to deal with osteo or any other terminal illness. Two of our greys had osteo, so I understand the heart ache. I give each & everyone of you credit for however you choose to handle or fight this battle.

 

One thing I have learned over the past years, having helped 7 pups don their angle wings, is that you can make the whole process so much easier on all of you if ask for an IV cath to placed first. Once that is done, at least in our case with our last two, the vet let me spend as long as I wanted with them in a room the specifically had set up, just like a living room at home, and when I felt ready, she came in, talked to me some more, gave quality time to my beloved pup and then, only then with my last permission did she admin the meds. The most gentle glide to sleep that I could ever have imagined. The previous 5 experiences were without IV cath and those turned into some degree between awful to horrible. Just thought I'd share in case this helps someone in the future.

[NeylasMom]

I spoke with an in home euthanasia vet last night. I don't think it's time, but I want to be ready when it is. I'm still in a bit of denial so I won't go into every little detail, but I don't see how this can be anything but cancer. We started Artemisinin and Butyrex (boy does that smell), and hopefully we can get amantadine added quickly to help with pain control.

I'm sorry. It has to be so difficult thinking that and not knowing.

 

 

Roux, thanks for sharing your experience. It honestly doesn't sound like you could have gotten much of a headstart on her treatment based on your description. With Neyla, there really were no warning signs. She was her usual active self, then one day she just came up really lame and I knew immediately what it was. With Zuri, I definitely saw a decrease in his energy level on walks. I would have to do a lot more coaxing for him to walk at our usual (already slow) pace. I remember thinking half-jokingly one day as I would encouraging him to hurry up, "When you find out he has cancer you're going to regret this". But this was a gradual decline over a few weeks or months and I thought it was most likely his LS. He never actually showed any lameness in that particular leg, at least that I could see so I'm not sure what I could have done. We had been to VOSM for an LS recheck in December. I suppose I could have taken him back and had them redo his gait analysis. Maybe something would have shown up pointing to an issue with that leg and we could have x-rayed sooner, but they were already so wishy-washy about cancer being visible on the x-ray when we got it. And it was the sudden limp on top of the decline that convinced me and made me resolute that that was what was going on and caused me to pursue further diagnostics with the oncologist. So I'm not really sure I could have done anything differently.

 

It's definitely worth sharing this information though for others. The one thing I do believe is that ANY time a limp shows up suddenly in a grey (with no obvious cause like a slip or fall) that you x-ray and pursue a diagnosis. Never just do rest and anti-inflammatories and "see if it improves" because typically if it's osteosarcoma it still will. Until it comes back and then you've lost a lot of potentially good treatment time. But in your case Miriam, not that much time had passed so I really don't think you could have done anything more.

 

 

Today's Z update: I am alternating 300 & 400 mg doses of the Gabapentin on the new 6 hr schedule to help him adjust and that seems to be going well. He's trotting on his walks and wanting to go further and is back to getting around a lot better and not seeming to have setbacks if he runs and plays. I added in the Amantadine last night and what followed was a dog that was knocked out all evening/overnight into this morning. So I will be holding off on giving that again to try to ascertain if that's what caused it and I sent an email to the vet to see if it's possible to get the medication in a smaller dose so if we do reintroduce it we can do it more gradually. But I'm pleased with how the increase in the Gaba is going so maybe we can hold off on the Amantadine for a bit.

 

A plus - I got the dogs settled into the bedroom for bed last night and then went to do one last thing. When I came back in I had a moment of alarm when I didn't see Zuri on his dog bed or in his crate until I realized he was in my bed. He slept with me all night.

Edited August 24, 2016 by NeylasMom

[NeylasMom]

So my vet claims that sedation is not a noted side effect of Amantadine in dogs and I have read that's true (nausea and agitation are the two you read about), though sedation is a side effect in people. But I am here to tell you that Zuri was knocked out for 24 hrs straight after the dose I gave him. I was really concerned because he wasn't even getting up to drink water. Once up for his walks he would trot around and seem okay, but once inside it was back to bed and dead to the world. But he got up happily for dinner last night and then perked up. Even when he was sleeping I could tell the difference. Instead of just laying prone completely unmoving he would occasionally change position a bit and he was dreaming. He'd also occasionally wake up and look alert and normal. By bedtime he was definitely his normal self and he's fine today.

 

So unless I learn otherwise somehow I'm going to assume it was the Amantadine. Sharing this only to recommend that if anyone is thinking about using it, you might want to make sure you get the tablets so you can split if desired. It doesn't seem to come in other doses and what I got was more of a gelcap so I can't split it. Its not horribly expensive, but it's not the cheapest med either. I think I paid $30something with a GoodRx coupon for a 30 day supply. I'm going to ask the vet for a new Rx I guess and try again with 25 mg once we're done upping the Gabapentin. I increased another dose last night so we only have one to go.

Edited August 25, 2016 by NeylasMom

[Guest Roux]

So my vet claims that sedation is not a noted side effect of Amantadine in dogs and I have read that's true (nausea and agitation are the two you read about), though sedation is a side effect in people. But I am here to tell you that Zuri was knocked out for 24 hrs straight after the dose I gave him. I was really concerned because he wasn't even getting up to drink water.

 

I'm going to ask the vet for a new Rx I guess and try again with 25 mg once we're done upping the Gabapentin. I increased another dose last night so we only have one to go.

 

Wow, Jen, I think it is just terrifying when anything knocks your dog out for hours and hours. I am so glad Zuri came out of it and is back to normal today.

 

So, when you say you "only have one to go", do you mean one more increase of the Gabapentin, then you will start adding in the Amatadine at a lower dose when the time comes? I know you are pretty concerned about maxing out the pain meds, and just want to keep up with where you are with Zuri's comfort. It sounds like all is well for now, and I do hope that continues!

 

Thanks for your comments about thinking we could not have done anything more for Crouton, under the circumstances. We actually had an appointment with a veterinary dental specialist a couple of days before we got Crouton's x-rays. To make matters just that much more complicated, he diagnosed a 4-5 grade heart murmur and wanted a complete cardiac workup before he would consider taking out a minimum of two upper molars. He also warned us that she had a bad case of gingivitis (which I knew), and he might have to take many more teeth once he was in surgery. I think my vet disagreed with his grading of the heart murmur, because it was audible only after exercising her... It made me wonder how much experience the dentist had had with greyhounds, but I'm no expert so had to assume he knew about their particular medical differences (he was not specifically a canine dentist, but also worked with zoos, etc.). Anyway, that delayed us getting to the x-ray, but only by three days. Then, having a compromised right hind leg (based on her favoring it to go down stairs) ruled out amp. For a seven year old girl, she wasn't given a fair chance at retirement.

 

It is a most difficult learning experience, but anytime I see a limp in the future, I will certainly know what to do first.

 

A plus - I got the dogs settled into the bedroom for bed last night and then went to do one last thing. When I came back in I had a moment of alarm when I didn't see Zuri on his dog bed or in his crate until I realized he was in my bed. He slept with me all night.

 

I so loved the vision of your finding Zuri in your bed. That was the sweetest thought for me to end on. Thanks for sharing.

Edited August 25, 2016 by Roux

[Guest MnMDogs]

Jen- What dose of Amantadine is Zuri on? I just started Macy yesterday evening, and didn't notice any sedation. But honestly, nothing seems to knock her out... Part of my conversation with the euthanasia vet discussed what we would do if she did break her leg, and the vet couldn't get to me quickly or I couldn't get her in the car (not anything I really want to think about). So my options would be a lot of tramadol (not a lethal dose obviously) to manage her pain until...

 

Anyway, I've never noticed either tramadol or benadryl sedating her. Though I do think the robaxin makes her sleepy (or it did at first), but nothing else seems to.

 

On a different topic, she has been so feisty when I get home from work! Stamping her feet, howling and talking, and grabbing toys, I don't want to believe she could have cancer. I'm so lucky that I have a wonderful boss who is telling me to stay home if I need to. I work from home 2 days a week as it is, and I did an extra day this week. I just want to be with my girl.

 

Roux, thank you for posting Crouton's course. It's interesting that Macy's always had a bad back left, and this is her right now. Matty always had a bad back right, and the cancer was in her back left, it makes it really hard to assess the change, limp, favoring of the "good" leg.

 

Lori - I hope you, Jet and Geno are doing ok.

[llm51807]

Just checking in on everyone. Jen, keep the good news coming with Zuri. Sounds like he's doing well aside from his zonked out period on the Amantadine. We didn't try that for Cecil so I don't have any advice. Just glad to hear he's still doing well. And good to hear Macy is feisty! A little sass goes a long way.

 

I'm reading posts, but I'm not in a very good place for responding much right now. I poured myself in Cecil the last few weeks and now I've got a lot of work piled up and I'm not in prime condition to do, so it's really taking it out of me. I don't have much left.

 

We're hanging in there (even though I'm using a thread) and Jet is bouncing back. Bloodwork all looks good except thyroid was a little low and we all know that greyhound story, so I"m not worried about it at this point. He has no other symptoms and the vet agreed. He's eating again and back to his goofy self. And he's jumping into bed with me every morning, and for that I am grateful.