Feeding Raw Food/meat To Dogs?

[3greytjoys]

Interesting share. The following professional veterinary organizations discourage feeding raw meat to dogs. Last quote includes symptoms of salmonella infection in dogs. Salmonella (and other organisms) in raw meat that are shed in dogs' stools can survive for weeks or longer in the environment.

1. American Veterinary Medical Association

2. The American Animal Hospital Association

3. American College of Veterinary Nutritionists

4. National Association of State Public Health Veterinarians

5. U.S. Center for Disease Control and Prevention

6. U.S. Food and Drug Administration

Etc...

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Raw or Undercoocked Animal-Source Protein in Dog Diets: https://www.avma.org/kb/policies/pages/raw-or-undercooked-animal-source-protein-in-cat-and-dog-diets.aspx

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All text below is quoted with links noted.

The U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) make the following statement on their website:

 

Raw diets, especially raw meat diets, are not recommended because of the risk for salmonellosis and other infections that can affect pets and their owners.

The American College of Veterinary Nutritionists (ACVN), in a FAQ document on its website, makes the following statement:

Raw diets, both home-prepared and commercial, have become more popular. Advocates of raw diets claim benefits ranging from improved longevity to superior oral or general health and even disease resolution (especially gastrointestinal disease). Often the benefits of providing natural enzymes and other substances that may be altered or destroyed by cooking are also cited. However, proof for these purported benefits is currently restricted to testimonials, and

no published peer-reviewed studies exist to support claims made by raw diet advocates

. No studies have examined differences in animals fed raw animal products to those fed any other type of diet (kibble, canned, or home cooked) with the exception of looking at the effects on digestibility. Typically raw meats (but not other uncooked foods like grains or starches) are slightly more digestible than cooked meat.

There are risks and concerns associated with the feeding of raw diets. One of these is the risk of

nutritional imbalances

, which is a reality for both home-prepared and commercial raw meat diets. Another important risk is related to

bacterial or parasitic contamination

. Of course, food poisoning is also a major concern for people, and the public health aspects of feeding raw foods to pets cannot be overlooked. Safe and proper handling of raw foods is crucial for reducing the risk, but safety cannot be guaranteed. At this time, the vast majority of purported benefits of feeding raw foods remain unproven, while the

risks and consequences have been documented

. It is best to discuss the choice of feeding raw foods with your veterinarian so that an informed decision can be made with regard to your pet’s diet.

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The American Animal Hospital Association (AAHA) approved a

policy

in August 2012 that discourages feeding raw meat to pets. The National Association of State Public Health Veterinarians (NASPHV) and American Association of Feline Practitioners (AAFP) both endorsed the AAHA statement. The policy was developed independently of the AVMA’s position, but was shared with AVMA prior to posting on the website.

Source: https://www.avma.org/KB/Resources/FAQs/Pages/Raw-Pet-Foods-and-the-AVMA-Policy-FAQ.aspx

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Raw Pet Foods and the AVMA Policy FAQs:

Q: How would I know if my pet becomes infected with Salmonella from its food?

A: There are many sources of Salmonella. Because the organism can persist in the environment for weeks, even after thorough cleaning, the exact source of your animal’s illness (if it is the food) may be long gone. Animals with salmonellosis may show some or all of the following signs:

• Lethargy
• Decreased appetite
• Fever
• Vomiting
• Excess salivation (in cats)
• Diarrhea (may contain blood or mucus)

Also be aware that pets may be infected with Salmonella but may not appear to be sick. Salmonella bacteria can be shed in your pet’s stool for 4 to 6 weeks, and possibly longer, after infection. If you suspect your pet is ill, contact your veterinarian.

If your pet is infected with Salmonella and is shedding the bacteria in their stool, it’s also possible for people to become infected by contact with their infected pet’s fur, mouth, or feet – as well as anything that can come in contact with your pet’s stool. You can find Salmonella essentially anywhere the animal has been. Salmonella can survive for weeks or even years given the right environmental conditions (temperature, pH, humidity).

Source: https://www.avma.org/KB/Resources/FAQs/Pages/Raw-Pet-Foods-and-the-AVMA-Policy-FAQ.aspx

End quotes.

 

ETA: AVMA's resource list: https://www.avma.org/KB/Resources/Reference/Pages/References-for-the-AVMA-policy-on-raw-pet-foods.aspx

Edited July 20, 2015 by 3greytjoys

[MaryJane]

I expect that this might turn into a lively discussion .....

[seeh2o]

My vet supports feeding raw and has been really helpful to me in terms of answering questions, giving advice and has even given me some raw rabbit for my dogs. She feeds her dogs raw.

Edited July 20, 2015 by seeh2o

[Remolacha]

The only objection my previous vet had to feeding raw was that it is a little more complicated than handing your dog a chicken leg and she said she didn't trust most of her clients to make the effort to do it right. My current vet prefers raw or home cooked diets.

 

It isn't for everyone because it isn't as easy as pouring kibble out of a bag, but what do they think dogs ate before commercial dog food was available, starting in the 1930's or 1940's, I believe?

[JAJ2010]

It's one of those things where people will always claim is unhealthy voodoo, until they take the leap and see the benefits for themselves. I won't go back to kibble. I see other greyhounds with horrible teeth, oily flakey coats, horrible breath, room clearing gas, etc. Keeps me happier. Keeps my dogs healthier. Prevents Rainy from having allergies. No dog breath. 💩 are tiny with no smell compared to kibble poop. The chewing and time it takes to eat helps keep their mind healthy.

 

Our vet doesn't endorse, but she's aware. Is amazed at how my girls look and has advised to keep doing whatever we are doing. The wise vets know that some things just don't come from text books.

 

Just think of all the money the kibble companies are missing out just from my two greyhounds. That alone is enough to get some lobbiest in the ears of some people and run some half butt studies. I love how the one study you mention about the salmonella in the poop only mentions half the study. LOL Go check on the shed rate of salmonella in the kibble fed dogs for that study. ;-)

 

Let's just say that my parents now have salmonella on their well water. They have never been diligent about picking up dog poop and they've always feed kibble. It has worked is way down through the soil....

[Hubcitypam]

I'm neither here nor there on feeding raw. If you want to knock your socks off. I do feed necks and backs as treats on occasion. As Jan said there is more involved than tossing a chicken leg or quarter to do it right.

For me it is cost prohibitive and I just really couldn't deal with a constant stream of thawing body parts. I'm the person that couldn't eat the meat from pasture raised steer my neighbor had processed because she told me his name was lightning bolt. My niece is the same way. She's been an ICU nurse for 30+ years and cutting up a whole chicken made her vomit.

 

I feed kibble with reasonably appropriate use of leftovers. If I don't finish my pasta or whatever the muttleys get a few tablespoons each on their kibble.

[smurfette]

I feed kibble and raw food. Kibble in the morning and raw in the evening. I use the kibble to compensate eventuel lack of nutrients in the raw feeding. And it works for me and them.

 

As for salmonella. Dogs don't usually get them because the acid in their stomachs is different to ours and able to deal with the salmonella.

[Guest Lillypad]

Thanks for posting. I have not read all the articles, as of yet, but will. (lot of material there) It is only fair to read both sides of the raw debate. The arguments against raw feeding by AVMA are not new by any means. I have fed a completely raw diet for 2+ years, these articles will not change my mind on that. I have done a great deal of research for and against raw diets and have concluded that a raw diet is best for canines. I would like to suggest that anyone considering a raw diet, not be fear mongered (by those who stand to loose a great deal of revenue) and be open minded about the possibilities of feeding a species appropriate diet. I would also like to add... Well said JAJ2010

Edited July 20, 2015 by Lillypad

[racindog]

They get a large amount of their funding from the dog food companies-hence they push their products. They are bought and paid for. They also still promote over vaccination -even though rigorous studies and experts in the field have proven beyond question that it is harmful- for the same reason $$$$$.

My dogs eat raw. They are healthier than any I have had before I came to my senses and started feeding them properly as nature intended. And that is another reason the AVMA is against it. It makes for healthy dogs and that also cuts into their bottom line for various food related malady treatments&teeth cleanings etc from the dry stuff. (Personally I think a lot of people who condemn raw the loudest just want to justify being a tightwad and not spending the extra money and effort to get it for their own dogs.)

Edited July 20, 2015 by racindog

[RedHead]

I have always been well aware that raw meat contains salmonella. In fact, I believe a good proportion of dogs and cats already have salmonella naturally occurring in their systems (kibble fed too). I even get why they do they don't endorse it because they could easily have a lawsuit if they promoted something with salmonella.

 

I use common sense when preparing raw meat, and it's a simple matter of washing hands (not like I am touching dog poo). If people don't feel safe or don't agree with raw I don't have a problem.

 

Funny fact that people get salmonella ALL the time from handling dog food treats. With the constant kibble recalls and contamination/foreign ingredients I personally feel much safer feeding raw.

Edited July 20, 2015 by RedHead

[CharlieRhea]

I have fed raw for 7 yrs at least. My German Shepherd is over 13 yrs of age which is up there for a shepherd. Although i'm afraid to add she is aging lately but i don't think she would be here with me still without her raw. Charlie my Greyhound is approx 5 yrs and has been with me for over 3 yrs. His teeth are great and his coat is gorgeous. I researched but also know many ppl who feed raw and how well there dogs do on it. You have to add certain things for a complete diet-not just meat. They do it for many reasons, allergies, stomach issues etc. Dogs digestive tracks are shorter than humans so Salmonella having and adverse effect on them is unlikely, kibble also can harbor Salmonella. Do what you think is best for your dog and most Vets will not back you although more and more will. The cost isn't bad for me as i belong to a co-op. Not much more than a high end kibble. To add: i started raw for my shepherd as she has EPI Exocrine pancreatic insuffiency. It was the first time she made a solid stool but she is still on enzymes.

[3greytjoys]

It's one of those things where people will always claim is unhealthy voodoo, until they take the leap and see the benefits for themselves.

 

Just think of all the money the kibble companies are missing out just from my two greyhounds.

 

It appears there were fifty five scientific resources used to develop American Veterinary Medical Association's policy alone.

 

I doubt the U.S. Center for Disease Control and Prevention, etc. cares in the least about earnings of kibble companies. Human public health safety, and the health of pets is the primary concern. If it were not, there would be no FDA recalls. People and animals can die from salmonella related illnesses. (I knew an otherwise healthy middle age person who was long hospitalized and nearly died from it.) It often affects children, people with compromised immune systems, and the elderly.

 

Side note: It's my understanding that medical doctors for humans now recommend placing raw meat directly from the package into a pan for cooking up to the meat's recommended safe temperature, instead of rinsing off raw meat in the sink which contaminates a wider area.

[seeh2o]

 

 

It appears there were fifty five scientific resources used to develop American Veterinary Medical Association's policy alone.

 

I doubt the U.S. Center for Disease Control and Prevention, etc. cares in the least about earnings of kibble companies. Human public health safety, and the health of pets is the primary concern. If it were not, there would be no FDA recalls. People and animals can die from salmonella related illnesses. (I knew an otherwise healthy middle age person who was long hospitalized and nearly died from it.) It often affects children, people with compromised immune systems, and the elderly.

 

Side note: It's my understanding that medical doctors for humans now recommend placing raw meat directly from the package into a pan for cooking up to the meat's recommended safe temperature, instead of rinsing off raw meat in the sink which contaminates a wider area.

What's your agenda with this thread?

[3greytjoys]

I simply found it interesting and informative information since so many dog owners recommend feeding raw foods. I was a bit surprised so many professional veterinary organizations discouraged feeding raw.

 

Balancing scientific pros and cons might be helpful to some people, particularly those with young children or elders in the home. Alert owners being aware of food borne pathogen symptoms in pets could help their vets diagnose medical issues more quickly, particularly if an owner had not mentioned feeding raw foods.

 

Understandably, there are recalls of many human foods, pet foods, and drug products every day but we're fortunate to have FDA testing.

[Gryffenne]

They pretty much have to appear against raw feeding. The general public contains enough dolts that don't even properly keep and/or handle raw foods for their own consumption, nor do they research their own balanced diets. To promote something that would expect them to research proper nutrition and handling is a lawsuit waiting to happen in this country.

 

Here on GT, and on other forums, we can ask questions. We can get input, encouragement, etc... from a much smaller knowledge base with almost 100% hands on experience. We're not going to sue each other.

 

It took me a while to get comfortable with raw feeding. I was curious about it, but I stayed with the kibble Sammi was on until too many recalls around it happened (2007..ish iirc) for me to feel comfortable basically waiting for her kibble to get nailed. So I started with homecooked first. I researched it, made up some "meal plans", made sure that I had proper nutrition and vitamins included. HC goes way beyond "oh, I'll just give my dog table scraps and call it good." That lasted a few months before I took the plunge and went raw for Sammi. My vet up north wasn't comfortable with the idea of raw, but trusted me enough as Sammi's owner. (She also knew me well enough to know that I would go ahead with it whether or not she was on board with the idea) I showed her and her DH (both vets) my meal plans (how I would introduce each protein and then how a typical week would look) and supplements. I had printed out some of the threads on raw that went into detail. Together, we went over the nutrition for Sammi, what malnourishment would look like, how to handle the raw meat, what food born illnesses to look out for & what not to be paranoid about due to how a dog's digestive system works, costs, where I was getting the meat from, etc... 6 months from the day we started raw, Sammi went in for a check up. Her and her DH both were very happy with Sammi's health, her glossy & soft coat, bright eyes, healthy weight and sparkling white teeth.

 

Why am I not doing raw now? Costs and lack of freezer space. To make it cost effective, need a large freezer to buy in bulk. Butchers that work with you helps a ton as well. When I moved, I lost access to a med sized chest freezer dedicated to just her food. I didn't have the space for it where I moved to. I lost easy access to the 3 butchers that worked with me. By the time I moved into a place (with DH) that had the space for it, Sammi's health was such that I felt that she wouldn't have been able to get all the benefits from raw. DH and I are looking to get the outlet on the enclosed porch checked and start looking for a freezer to purchase that will fit out there. I would start raw again in a heartbeat if I could made it anywhere near cost effective in this small podunk town.

Edited July 28, 2015 by Gryffenne

[KickReturn]

This is such a dumb debate and most of you don't seem the slightest bit fooled - good. And shame on the veterinary profession for treating people like idiots. It also completely flies in the face of the unparalleled evidence of the long term health and performance of racing greyhounds which in many cases are fed exclusively raw diets. Has there ever been a champion kibble fed greyhound? Can all veterinarians really be this ignorant (or stupid)? This has become an irritating joke.

 

Salmonella can't grow to dangerous levels unless there is an absence of refrigeration. If the raw food is kept frozen and thawed under refrigeration than bacteria will simply not rise to dangerous levels. I always make the assumption that salmonella is present and don't leave anything at room temp. Even at room temperature it takes a while for bacteria level to rise. Dogs are also blessed with the ability to withstand some exposure.

 

I feed raw because kibble, any kibble, makes my Hester fart so badly that he is unsuitable as a household pet. It also results in many massive, moderately soft bowel movements every day, a burden on both Hester and those that must clean up after him. If his digestive system could handle kibble I wouldn't hesitate. I'd save myself a pile of cash and avoid the inconvenience of raw.

 

FWIW I have had serious salmonella poisoning. In France, a sunny day, garden party buffet, and what I thought would be a lovely end to a beautiful meal - a custard of sorts. I though it was a bit warm. Ten days feeling too tired to get out of bed. Low grade fever. Any attempt to eat solid food would result in cramping and diarrhea. Gatorade and similar only. I never felt that bad - just tired, slept all day. I even got out of bed to play a round of golf with my grandfather in the midst of it. Something to be avoided for sure but I the flu is worse.

Edited August 5, 2015 by KickReturn

[Guest Lillypad]

Hear, Hear KickReturn... I like you way of thinking!!!!!

[tbhounds]

Hear, Hear KickReturn... I like you way of thinking!!!!!

Well I don't.

Personally, I like to read documents based on facts. I keep an open mind for both sides of the story-I don't follow the Jones because it worked for the Jones. I appreciate the op posting information on this thread. I don't drink the Kool Aid and I don't close my mind to alternative methods. For the record--the tracks feed kibble too ;-)

[XTRAWLD]

I'm convinced that there are more pros to feeding raw than there are cons, and believe that feeding raw was a contributor to the healthy long life of Kasey, and hoping the same for Ryder too. Raw was a lifesaver for Kasey who's insides were never perfectly happy on kibble and who was allergic to too many things found in kibble, an affliction he had regardless of the range of quality of the kibble itself. He had a completely different life, and a life for the better, after being put on raw - it's a shame I didn't do it sooner, and I will never go back after witnessing this change first hand.

[Guest jenmm]

My dogs have been sick from Diamond dog food that has been recalled. They haven't been sick like that in the last 3 years of being fed raw. I've done my research on a well balanced raw diet. My greyhounds have lived to the age of 13 and 14 and I'm happy with what works for us.