User Error-- She Bit My Husband On The Face

[Guest lynne893]

I do attribute this to "user error" though I'm concerned nonetheless.

 

We've had Stella for about 6 weeks (added her to Greta after Swiftie passed away December 28). Greta has bed privileges, though we're trying to wean her of that. We determined, though, that new greys would NOT have furniture privilege. 1) it ruins our furniture, 2) I think it gives them too much "control."

 

The other night, DH slept in guest bedroom bc he had to awaken at 3:30am for a flight. Around 11pm I heard him yelling loud and low so I ran into the guest bedroom and he said, "She got me." Stella had bitten him on the side of his face near his temple, barely breaking the skin, but an obvious bite.

 

He explained she hopped up in the guest bed (something he's been allowing her to do -- the room is also his office) and he's even let her nap on the bed with him sometimes. (I've told him this is unacceptable to me bc we agreed we weren't going to let new dogs on the furniture, so in the 6 short weeks we've had her, he's already been inconsistent.) Anyway, she was in the bed and he wanted to get in it to go to sleep. So with the lights on and her eyes open, he tried to verbally get her to move, but she didn't so he began gently moving her aside so he could crawl in bed too. He moved her some more and turned off the light, as he tried to squeeze under the sheets, she snapped and got him.

 

I'm the one on GreyTalk all the time, so I've read all the cautions about not leaning over a dog's space (esp a new dog) and not petting, getting too close when they're resting-- even if eyes are open. He's just used to our former dogs and current Greta, who were like jello and could be moved, molded, picked up, etc no problems ever. Stella's not used to that yet, and so every time I see him hovering over her when she's resting on her bed I remind him that he shouldn't do that.

 

Anyway, he is firm now that she's never allowed on bed again, which is great, and I think he learned his lesson about getting in a dog's space when they're resting, because even if eyes are open they're probably not really "with it."

 

But I'm nervous. We're expecting our first baby this fall. I think some training is in order and we'll be very rigid about our rules from now on, but can someone assure me that she's not going to turn out to be a "biter"?

 

Thank you,

Lynne

Edited March 22, 2014 by lynne893

[greysmom]

She's not going to turn out to be a biter.

 

This is mostly a resource guarding issue - with "space" being the resource that she's guarding - NOT an aggression issue. Stella is very new and you're on the right track with keeping her on her own bed and off the furniture for the time being. Once you establich a good bond with her and she learns to trust you more, these issues may subside. Or they might not. Or they might get better, but something you'll need to watch for the rest of her life.

 

If one of you needs to move her, it's always better to lure her with a treat than to try and physically change her position. Teach her a command so that you don't have this happen in the future.

 

As far as a baby is concerned, you have a bit of time yet, but some rules are going to need to be in place. Never leave the baby and the dogs unattended. Ever. Don't allow your toddler to crawl around the dogs, especially their beds - and MOST especially with Stella. The phrase "Let sleeping dogs lie" is a good one and every child in your house - yours or a guests - should follow it. We've all seen those "adorable" pictures of the baby riding the dog or whatever. I cringe when I see them becasue that's a dog who is being set up to fail miserably and be returned.

 

Dogs need to follow rules, and so do children. The best way to teach them is to start at the beginning.

[Guest Lillypad]

Well said Greysmom. So true, we sometimes, unintentionally, set up ourselves and our hounds for failure. I try so hard to be mindful of the outcome of my actions.

[juliemac]

I'm so glad your husband wasn't hurt badly, and that you are learning 'the rules' before your baby comes -- CONGRATULATIONS on your new addition (Stella) and your upcoming human addition! How very exciting!

[Guest Scouts_mom]

I see you have had Stella for just six weeks. In my experience, that is about the time that these resource guarding incidents happen. She has become comfortable in your home and has decided that certain things are hers and are to be guarded when anyone tries to take them from her. She needs to learn that they are really yours and it is a privilege to use them. Allowing her up on the furniture only by invitation is a very good start, I would also suggest some obedience training, or at the very least take her for lots of leashed walks so she is used to doing what you say. Others will have additional good ideas.

[krissn333]

If I want Ozzie to move, I can't physically move him or he gets crabby. I started by luring him with a treat. Now, all I have to do is get up and say "come with me, Ozzie" and he will follow me. Of course I reward him with a tiny treat for listening to me. It works for us and our household situation, and he listens EVERY time.

[3greytjoys]

Completely agree with greysmom.

 

Good for you for recognizing the bed, plus other human furniture is much safer for humans when off-limits to dogs. Dog beds in a safe zone on the floor (not being stepped over) places dogs in a winning scenario from the beginning. Keeping dogs off human furniture is especially important with a human baby expected in the future.

 

While working to (lure/treat) train her "off" the human bed (vs. "down" since down means to lie down), if Stella isn't willingly lurable off the bed, try happily calling "Stella come" while you're in another room, then reward her rapid response immediately with a super yummy treat (or play toy if not highly food motivated). (This can be a double training opportunity for dog + human safety since teaching "come" is so important.) Another option is to show her the leash (since many GH racers hop to attention when they see their leash, but the leash should be met with an immediate reward (like a walk, car ride or yard fun) if possible.

 

Just like with people, prevention is best, but the sooner an undesirable behavior is broken, the easier/faster it is to resolve permanently.

 

Since your husband is not on GT, it might help to share this link with him since it's probably been a while since he's lived with a newly retired hound: http://www.northerngreyhoundrescue.org.uk/page_1501563.html

[brianamac]

Of course it could be sleep aggression or could be space aggression, but maybe not. We have a hound that has neither of those and just doesn't like being physically manipulated. So, we follow the advice krissn333 suggested when he's on a piece of furniture and taking too much space--just lure him off an area with treats. It works every time. He's learned to remove himself with just a verbal command, but treats always come to ensure he keeps this positive association.

If Stella is allowed on the 'office' bed most times, I think that when a human wants to use it, they lure the dog off with treats, then get in. The dog can then get in and fit themselves in to your DH's sleeping position if they desire.

We allow our dogs on our beds and couches freely, and we don't scold growling. However, growling on furniture is met with a consequence: OFF. They quickly learned to share space.

Edited March 23, 2014 by brianamac

[Guest sirsmom]

We use treats to get the girls off the bed: it always works, and there's no resentment. We're laid back here. Wherever Stella was before you she probably had to fight for everyhing she had. She just needs time to know your ways.

[greysmom]

Wherever Stella was before you she probably had to fight for everyhing she had.

 

 

Racing greyhounds never have to fight ro compete for anything (except on the track). Everything they need or want is provided to them - a secure place to sleep, food, treats, excercise and regular turnouts. I'm not sure why you would say this?????

 

I just wanted to add, most greyhounds don't appreciate being physically moved, whether they are space/sleep aggressive or not. It's just not something they've ever experienced. Luring and command/reward work much better.

[Guest Lillypad]

Once again, well said greysmom. I can't see greyhounds having to fight for anything. At least I know my girl was well treated and all I have met were well treated, they just need their social graces polished a little. LOL

[Hubcitypam]

What???? Fight for everything she had? Did I read that right?

Back to OP...

Greyhounds are prone to sleep startle. At the track they have their own 4 ft. by 3 ft. by 3 ft. condo. No one bothers them when they are sleeping. Some take a while to adjust to being awakened and a rare few never do.

 

Of my six only two would even get on the bed or furniture and Rex was one. He and I went to sleep on the futon in the guest room while watching TV a couple of months after he arrived. In the night Poodle jumped up there and scared us both. I came up arms flailing and Rex came up biting. My arm found it' way into his mouth and I had a pretty bad bite on both sides of my arm. It wasn't his fault, we just both came up swinging. He loved the futon so for a while that was his bed and I made a point to not sleep there. Eventually he was allowed on my bed after he had settled in for several months. He slept with me almost every night until he went to the bridge and nothing ever happened again.

I think it was a case of too much too soon.

[Guest lynne893]

Thanks everyone. I appreciate your remarks.

 

Yes, we could do a better job with commands and lures. You gave me an idea that we should get some airtight containers and fill them with great treats and keep them high up on a shelf in the office, bedroom, living room in addition to kitchen. That way they're always handy.

 

Other than this, Stella has been great. She has a big strong wagging tail so we call her "Stella-copter." She's eager, goofy and makes us laugh.

[Samwise]

Good to hear that things are otherwise good!

 

I got bit in the face on the second day Sam was home-- I got into his space and didn't know how to read his signs of anxiety & discomfort until they escalated. I responded by being MUCH more sensitive about his space and by starting some basic training with him.

 

In a way, I'm happy that this happened so early on in his time with us, because it taught me to be that much more respectful of him. It was also the impetus I needed to start reading more about dog behaviour and "language," and the result is that I have gotten better at understanding what he's trying to tell me, and communicating with him in a way he understands. A nip on his second day home is definitely preferable to building up false trust and believing he'll never bite, only to have someone get seriously hurt when we can't read his frustration and it bubbles over. I now know that Sam can and may bite, which is true for all dogs, even if they've never bitten before; a fact that too few people remember. By having learnt this lesson early, this bite may be a blessing in disguise for you!

 

I also feel like we too often in this situation don't address the fear and sadness that can come with a bite, even an understandable "user error" one. The first time our dog reminds us that we are not infallible and that their good behaviour is conditional on ours can really hurt-- for me, I felt betrayed, embarrassed, and deeply ashamed, and struggled to trust/connect with Sam in the days & weeks after the incident. While we got over it and are now building our relationship in a great way, it's important to let ourselves grieve a little bit for the loss of that 100% trust, even if it was unwise to have it in the first place. I don't know what your husband's personality is like, but the bite might affect his relationship with Stella (on his end, not hers!) so it's not a bad idea for him to spend some extra bonding time with her over the next little while, just to swamp that negative memory with new, good ones!

[Guest lynne893]

Good to hear that things are otherwise good!

 

I got bit in the face on the second day Sam was home-- I got into his space and didn't know how to read his signs of anxiety & discomfort until they escalated. I responded by being MUCH more sensitive about his space and by starting some basic training with him.

 

In a way, I'm happy that this happened so early on in his time with us, because it taught me to be that much more respectful of him. It was also the impetus I needed to start reading more about dog behaviour and "language," and the result is that I have gotten better at understanding what he's trying to tell me, and communicating with him in a way he understands. A nip on his second day home is definitely preferable to building up false trust and believing he'll never bite, only to have someone get seriously hurt when we can't read his frustration and it bubbles over. I now know that Sam can and may bite, which is true for all dogs, even if they've never bitten before; a fact that too few people remember. By having learnt this lesson early, this bite may be a blessing in disguise for you!

 

I also feel like we too often in this situation don't address the fear and sadness that can come with a bite, even an understandable "user error" one. The first time our dog reminds us that we are not infallible and that their good behaviour is conditional on ours can really hurt-- for me, I felt betrayed, embarrassed, and deeply ashamed, and struggled to trust/connect with Sam in the days & weeks after the incident. While we got over it and are now building our relationship in a great way, it's important to let ourselves grieve a little bit for the loss of that 100% trust, even if it was unwise to have it in the first place. I don't know what your husband's personality is like, but the bite might affect his relationship with Stella (on his end, not hers!) so it's not a bad idea for him to spend some extra bonding time with her over the next little while, just to swamp that negative memory with new, good ones!

 

very well put! thank you!

[Guest sirsmom]

 

 

Racing greyhounds never have to fight ro compete for anything (except on the track). Everything they need or want is provided to them - a secure place to sleep, food, treats, excercise and regular turnouts. I'm not sure why you would say this?????

 

I just wanted to add, most greyhounds don't appreciate being physically moved, whether they are space/sleep aggressive or not. It's just not something they've ever experienced. Luring and command/reward work much better.

Sorry--for some reason I thought she was being fostered before