Osteo Thread Part V I I

[greysmom]

It's time to start another thread as we come near to 50 pages on the previous thread.

Below is information to help you make choices for yourself and your family, originally posted and collected by NeylasMom.

This is the fifth sixth seventh in a series of threads. The original was started by a few people whose pups were diagnosed around the same time in July of 2010, but it appears it has grown into an ongoing thread that will provide both information and emotional support for anyone who has dealt with losing a pup to osteo, is currently caring for a pup diagnosed with osteo, has one that has been newly diagnosed, or worries they may have to deal with it in the future. You do not have to have a pup that currently has osteo to join in this thread - feel free to stop by if you've ever lost a pup to osteo or other cancer, would like to offer support to those currently dealing with this disease, would like to prepare yourself for the possibility of dealing with this, or if your pup has been diagnosed recently. We've even had a person or two join in whose pups were diagnosed with other forms of cancer. Basically, anyone is welcome although we'd prefer there be no reason to have to welcome anyone or for this thread to exist at all.

For those who have recently had a pup diagnosed with osteo, here is some information to hopefully get you started:

Bone Cancer Dogs site - An excellent place to start to get general information about osteo, treatment options, etc.
Journal article on pain mgt - Technically an article on using radiation for palliative (pain management) care, but includes a good overview of the
types of bone cancer pain and the various ways to treat it including medications, radiation, and IV pamidronate
Dog Cancer Blog - Blog from Dr. Dressler, a vet who has dedicated himself to cancer treatment in dogs - includes lots of useful information via blog posts, as well as a link
to purchase his book (which covers all aspects of cancer care, both holistic and traditional) in a downloadable format.

The previous osteo threads, the original and part II, with over 100 pages of useful information and support. This is a good place to get specifics if you are wondering about a specific holistic regimen one of us used, the decision making process for choosing amputation or palliative care, etc.

For inspiration and some laughs: Winslow's diary

For those considering amputation, BigOrangeDog's blog about what to expect.

Yahoo groups where you can go for information and support:

Dog Bone Cancer Group - not greyhound specific, but a good source of information and support specific to osteosarcoma
Circle of Grey - a greyhound specific support group for owners of pups dealing with all kinds of health issues
Artemisinin and Cancer - for those who would like to pursue artemisinin as part of their treatment regimen, neither greyhound nor osteo specific

For those interesting in contacting OSU for a consult, second opinion, appointment, or amputation:

Greyhound Health and Wellness Program
Ohio State University College of Veterinary Medicine
601 Vernon Tharp Street
Columbus, Ohio 43210
Phone: (614) 247-6757 or (614) 247-8490
Email: greyosu@osu.edu
Website: http://www.vet.ohio-state.edu/GHWP.htm (registration and fee now required to get full access to this site)

For a consultation, you must use the online consultation service found here.

You can sign up for full access to the website ($99 per calendar year) or donate through the giving page on the website. If you decide to donate, you can double your money by giving through the Greyhound Project. They will match the funds that you donate. Just go to this website and scroll down to the appropriate donation button: http://www.adopt-a-g...g/donate.shtml.

Keep in mind that OSU does 20 to 30 greyhound consults a day along with all of their "in canine" patients. Depending on their workload there may be a wait for the consultation. If you are contacting them on an emergency basis, please let them know.

If you want to make an appointment to be seen in person/canine, you can call the main number to set up a date/time. The main number for the veterinary hospital is 614-292-3551. This information is also on the consultation service page.

If you decide to visit OSU please contact Jane (joejoesmom). She may be able to put you up in a local home, provide moral support, or just help with logistics: Finewhipador-drool@yahoo.com[/i]

If you wish to help further osteosarcoma research, 2 labs that are collecting samples and have specifically requested greyhound samples:

Modiano Lab - Need tissue from a biopsy and blood; will send a collection kit and a prepaid return mailer; also accepting samples for hemangiosarcoma and lyphoma
Website: http://www.modianola...nfo_index.shtml
Contact person: Mitzi, 612-626-6890, lewel001@umn.edu

Broad Institute - Blood samples only, may be able to help with shipping costs, but they prefer you cover them
Website: http://www.broadinst...sending-samples
Contact info: dog-info@broadinstitute.org, FAX: (617) 324-2722

Both labs require signed consent forms and samples must be shipped overnight.

[Victor]

Lana had her sutures removed today. She also had her first chemotherapy treatment. So far so good—fingers crossed!

[teri_d]

whenever a new osteo thread starts from the original I can't help but think of my dear friends flash, Charlie, sirocco, annubis, chase, jasmine, neyla and my very precious rivie -- here's to you and those who loved you - little did they know they would help so many others - this thread and it's off-shoots have been going for over three years now -

[Charlies_Dad]

whenever a new osteo thread starts from the original I can't help but think of my dear friends flash, Charlie, sirocco, annubis, chase, jasmine, neyla and my very precious rivie -- here's to you and those who loved you - little did they know they would help so many others - this thread and it's off-shoots have been going for over three years now -

Indeed. Too many precious pups taken far too soon.

[greysmom]

I would have been lost without the support of everyone here. Thank you all for sharing your journey, your experience, and your time with those who came after.

 

Miss you Dude...................................................

[MP_the4pack]

My Diamond lost her battle to OS before the original thread started. I sure could have used it. But God forbid, at least I have it now for the future.

[krissn333]

Missing my three osteo kiddos and Miss Ace, who didn't have osteo but had leukemia and a couple of other freaky cancers removed.

 

Frickin' cancer

Lots of sadness but lots of good outcomes here too. I'm still here to support anyone still carrying on and anyone newly diagnosed. The original thread appeared after Sutra was diagnosed, but, it cropped up that July when he was still with me. Thankfully I wasn't alone as his osteo progressed.

[jaym1]

here is a question only tangentially related to osteosarcoma: does anyone whose greyhound had to have a front leg amputation have any advice for reteaching stairs? tempo was never great with stairs, but he was passible in most situations. now, however, stairs are basically impossible, and he tries to jump on even the shortest staircases. this isnt a problem at home, as i live on ground level. but sooner or later im going to have to leave them somewhere for a weekend, or i may need to leave town for a few days, and i am terrified of the idea of him injuring himself, potentially seriously, on a stairway. initially teaching him stairs was fairly straightforward: pick up one paw, put it on a step, then repeat x4. but as you can imagine, that sort of thing is nearly impossible with only three legs.

[KF_in_Georgia]

I've seen Tempo hop on and off your sofa successfully, so I'm surprised he's not handling stairs better. People with front-amp dogs will probably chime in, but can you find a set of stairs to practice on? You want a set that's too high to jump in one go, but wide enough to give him some stability as he moves from one step to another. Often, outside stairs--a wide set of steps in a park or outside a public building--will fit the bill. If the steps are wide from front to back of each step, then Tempo will be forced to take the steps one at a time.

[jaym1]

he is extremely agile still, and could easily handle stairs -- its not a physical issue. part of the problem is that i live in an apartment with literally zero stairs, so, to be honest, he never got to be that good with them in the first place. ever after a year of retirement, there were certain staircases he just would not budge for. so now, as you can imagine, its even worse.

 

good advice about the taller staircases -- ive only been trying it with tiny ones. still, with four legs he sometimes tried to jump those, so im a little fearful.

[KF_in_Georgia]

Yeah, not tall and steep. Just long enough to discourage him from trying to leap all the way. So if you can find wide steps, even if there aren't lots of steps, wide steps that he'd have to take one at a time might help him get the hang of it. (The local civic center auditorium has a nice plaza with very wide steps. I've practiced there with nervous foster dogs.) And I don't know if it would be helpful to have Rocko along or not as an example. Also, perhaps a towel under Tempo's chest (behind his remaining leg) so you can hold the towel to steady him if he stumbles (which is when Rocko might be in your way).

 

(I find having two dogs doing stairs at once is too difficult. One dog is faster than the other, they're often moving faster than I am, and my arms are stretched in two directions as I'm trying to cling to railings, etc. And I'm a klutz.)

[TwiggysMom]

Chris, thank you so much for starting the latest iteration of the Osteo Thread! I am another who would have been lost without it, and Twiggy would likely have left us already if it weren't for all of you and the pups who led the way.

 

Yay for Lana's stitches coming out!!

 

As for Tempo and the stairs, that is definitely a tough one. I was lucky that Twiggy was (literally) a stair master pre-amp. I agree that maybe finding a set of stairs that he knows he can't jump may help.

 

I've done the "paw, paw, step, step, hoist the rump" method for a lot of fosters. Maybe it can be altered to do from the side instead of from behind? If you squat next to him, put his front leg up a couple steps, and wrap your arm around his chest while lifting first one hind leg, then the next, and use a knee to do the "hoist the rump" part??? I can sort of picture it, but haven't had to try it.

 

I do have to support Twiggy for her weekly nail trims. It is awkward for sure, but that's where I got the idea that it could be adapted for stair training. Doesn't mean it will work though...

For what it's worth, even though Twiggy is a stair master, she now only likes to do her own stairs. At hotels/other places, I either have to force her to go up the stairs, carry her (which is worse than forcing her, in her opinion), or find an elevator.

[Guest bozicj]

Regarding stairs, I'm lucky that Python (who had her right front amputated) doesn't have to deal with many at home. She was able to do the ones at my parent's house though without problems but she HATES stairs that are open (like deck stairs that aren't completely closed). Other than those I've just been helping her by walking next to her with a towel/sheet under her stomach to help support her. I don't lift her legs for her but just let her go at her own pace... hope this helps at all...

[Guest fastcasper]

Casper is lucky in that he only has one stair to climb. I live in a one story house. I lowered my bed and he is doing fabulously getting on and off the bed. I have not tried the ramp thing (for using to exit the car). Casper is 3+ weeks post amp, my question is: did anyone's pup still yelp or cry when you got near the suture site? I think he is nervous and yelp to say "don't touch", but I am not sure. He even yelped once this week when I touch his back leg which is no where near his amp site. Is this normal??

 

His two blood CBC test are all good. Trying hard to put weight on him this week!!! He goes in next week for chemo #2. He is having a pretty good week, he is fluffing his bed, scuffling outside, and went out on his own this morning. He has taken 2 longer walks and is greeting me at the door. Not roaching yet For 2-3 night in a row, however, he has woken up 4 times panting and he gets up and circles a lot to re-position himself, lays down and the panting subsides. Then it starts back up in an hour or so. I think his non-suture side (he only sleeps on that side), "falls asleep" and he gets pins and needles or it starts to ache. Has anyone experienced that??

 

Kim

[Victor]

Yay for Lana's stitches coming out!!

Thanks, Wendy!

 

 

Casper is lucky in that he only has one stair to climb. I live in a one story house. I lowered my bed and he is doing fabulously getting on and off the bed. I have not tried the ramp thing (for using to exit the car). Casper is 3+ weeks post amp, my question is: did anyone's pup still yelp or cry when you got near the suture site? I think he is nervous and yelp to say "don't touch", but I am not sure. He even yelped once this week when I touch his back leg which is no where near his amp site. Is this normal??

 

His two blood CBC test are all good. Trying hard to put weight on him this week!!! He goes in next week for chemo #2. He is having a pretty good week, he is fluffing his bed, scuffling outside, and went out on his own this morning. He has taken 2 longer walks and is greeting me at the door. Not roaching yet For 2-3 night in a row, however, he has woken up 4 times panting and he gets up and circles a lot to re-position himself, lays down and the panting subsides. Then it starts back up in an hour or so. I think his non-suture side (he only sleeps on that side), "falls asleep" and he gets pins and needles or it starts to ache. Has anyone experienced that??

 

Kim

Lana has been doing the on-and-off panting then get up and change positions thing too. She alternates between sleeping on her incision and sleeping on her other side. I can't tell if she's in pain or just hot from laying in the same position too long. She seems to like the A/C turned down lower than usual, and sometimes when she's panting we'll turn on a small fan for her, which she seems to like.

 

Lana has also started "proactive yelping". Like you I get the sense she's worried it'll hurt so she yelps in advance. This morning, for example, I lightly pressed on her neck to encourage her to lie down—something she's normally totally fine with—and she let out a yelp. She's also taken to whining to try to avoid taking her meds.

[KF_in_Georgia]

Amp dogs are having to compensate for that missing leg by walking differently than they used to. They may be using different muscles or just trying to hold their spines a bit differently. This may be causing them some spinal or neck alignment issues, so that Casper and Lana might have tweaked some muscles. Talk to your vets and get the vets to check for reactions. (Even when they're not yelping, our normally stoic dogs may twitch muscles or otherwise react in ways the vet can spot.) You might wind up giving your dogs something like methocarbamol (Robaxin), a muscle relaxer.

 

My girl isn't an amputee, but she's got a corn on her front right foot and a permanent limp (old racing injury, I think) on her back right. She started yelping if she moved the wrong way, and now she's taking methocarbamol. My vet thinks Silver just walks funny to compensate for injuries and ouches, and that messes with her spinal alignment. The methocarbamol has put an end to the yelping. She'll probably start seeing a chiropractor soon. In the meantime, she no longer looks like a dog that's having back pains...

 

Edited July 26, 2013 by KF_in_Georgia

[Guest FawnFan]

I want to say thank you too for these informative threads and to all of those who are so giving with their experiences and their knowledge. I would have really been lost in the beginning when Gunner was diagnosed. I probably would have also been in a straight jacket by the end without the support here. Sad to see another thread started yet I know this will help many who will join this group in the future.

 

Wishing for lots of good recoveries and long lives to those who face these challenges.

 

Thanks again - Jean

[greysmom]

We used a certified canine massage therapist for Dude. It helped to keep his muscles loose and relaxed, and keep everything lined up and in good working order. Plus, he LOVED having somebody pay all their attention to him for a whole hour every week!

[Guest Jchallis87]

fast casper. Blitz did they she would cry and seem very restless post amp but that stopped about a week after she got her sutures taken out. shes fully healed now and started roaching last week we were super excited took about 100 photos! but it took probably 3 weeks for her to stop figiting and whimpering. i think it just gets uncomfortable after a while and it was still tender to lay on the side that was amputated. now she lays on both sides on her back it doesnt seem to matter haha! it will get better i think. if not take a look as some basic massage stuff im not sure where to find a pet massage but while she was going through her rehab i used to sit there and rub her amp site kinda like a little massage my vet told me it would help. i hope he roaches for you soon!

 

and this forum saved my sanity. and blitz is doing great. jumping and running and doing stairs and hopping in and out of the car! shes back to her old self thank you to all you guys. youre all angels in my eyes!!! Blitz says thank you! photos to come soon i promise

[Victor]

Amp dogs are having to compensate for that missing leg by walking differently than they used to. They may be using different muscles or just trying to hold their spines a bit differently. This may be causing them some spinal or neck alignment issues, so that Casper and Lana might have tweaked some muscles. Talk to your vets and get the vets to check for reactions. (Even when they're not yelping, our normally stoic dogs may twitch muscles or otherwise react in ways the vet can spot.) You might wind up giving your dogs something like methocarbamol (Robaxin), a muscle relaxer.

Thanks, Kathy—I hadn't thought about that. We'll be sure to check with our vet if it continues.

 

Silver looks very comfortable in that photo!

[Victor]

We used a certified canine massage therapist for Dude. It helped to keep his muscles loose and relaxed, and keep everything lined up and in good working order. Plus, he LOVED having somebody pay all their attention to him for a whole hour every week!

That's a neat idea! How did you find a certified canine massage therapist?

fast casper. Blitz did they she would cry and seem very restless post amp but that stopped about a week after she got her sutures taken out. shes fully healed now and started roaching last week we were super excited took about 100 photos! but it took probably 3 weeks for her to stop figiting and whimpering. i think it just gets uncomfortable after a while and it was still tender to lay on the side that was amputated. now she lays on both sides on her back it doesnt seem to matter haha! it will get better i think. if not take a look as some basic massage stuff im not sure where to find a pet massage but while she was going through her rehab i used to sit there and rub her amp site kinda like a little massage my vet told me it would help. i hope he roaches for you soon!

 

and this forum saved my sanity. and blitz is doing great. jumping and running and doing stairs and hopping in and out of the car! shes back to her old self thank you to all you guys. youre all angels in my eyes!!! Blitz says thank you! photos to come soon i promise

Yay, Blitz! Hopefully Lana's restlessness and panting will go away in a week, too.

[krissn333]

I'm hoping sometime in the nearish future to get some canine massage therapy training and get certified...I learned a few things when Ace started having issues and it sparked my interest, as a valuable skill to have as a pet owner and also a skill I'd be happy to share with others. I remember how much Dude loved his sessions

[Guest Taras]

Got good news this morning for Treetop. The type of Osto is the less aggressive type . And even though it is OS. it has not damaged the rib bone yet . Woohoo . Leave it to my dog to be the 1 in a millon

[greysmom]

That's a neat idea! How did you find a certified canine massage therapist?

 

 

Our good friend Google! Plus there was an article in our paper on certified canine massage therapists right around the time I started looking for one. Here in Oregon, animal masseuses have to go through human certification and then additional training for animals. So I was fairly confident in the quality of training. Lots of people who show horses professionally use them.

[NeylasMom]

On vacation so I have to be brief, but a couple of responses to recent posts in the last thread. First, I know OSU recommends 100 mg Artemisinin/day, but based on everything I read, I think its too little. Also, cycling is no longer recommended. The yahoo group is the best source for details.

 

For people wanting better evidence for post chemo treatments (metronomic, etc) consider looking at human studies. Google scholar is a good way to access articles. I haven't looked for those ones specifically, but there's obviously more money/interest in human studies and while it doesnt mean it would definitely carry over to dogs, I think cancer acts similarly in both so it can be helpful to look to the human research.

 

Also applies BTW to learning about bone cancer pain for anyone doing palliative care. Our dogs don't or can't always tell us how much pain theyre in, but humans can.