Uti Or Stones - Diet Related?

[Brandiandwe]

Hi there,

 

I'm not sure whether to post this here or in food, but Brandi was taken to the vet yesterday. On Tuesday she went downstairs at around 5 am and pee'd in front of the back door. Not much, but definitely peeing. We've struggled a little with housebreaking here, and I thought that maybe she was a little bit unsettled after being boarded the week before, and being fed a little later than usual. No problem. Cleaned up, moved on. Then on Friday she went down again. No pee this time (that I've found), but she didn't pee on her walk either. Right. Off to the vet with urine sample on the logic that if it was behavioural then a vet visit would put me out of pocket. If it was medical, a vet visit was needed and behavioural 'fixes' wouldn't work (Greytalk has taught me well!).

 

Sure enough, red cells in the urine and a high level of crystals. Good news: vet visit justified and its not behavioural. Bad news: there's something wrong.

 

After much discussion we've decided to start with a round of antibiotics given that the presence of crystals doesn't mean that she definitely has stones. He couldn't feel any by palpating the bladder (she was very good), and she looks in the pink of health otherwise - temp normal, playing, eating fine, eyes, ears, gums good, coat glossy, fit etc etc. If there's no improvement in three to four days, back we go for either an x-ray or ultrasound. We didn't leap to these first because there was a chance she'd need to be sedated. She has her dental coming p soon, so if necessary, she can be knocked out for both procedures at once.

 

My question, though, is diet related. She's currently fed TOTW Pacific Stream (about 3 cuts per day) with natural yoghurt and some cheese, with fish oil, glucosamine (for some cramping issues she's had, greyhoudn vet recommended) and kangaroo and venison treats. Pretty restricted diet because she's a garbage guts and Paige has a sensitive stomach. The vet reckons that with stones one of the problems might be a diet which is too high in phosporus or magnesium. I don't 'think' I'm feeding too much of either of these minerals, but the breakdown of the TOTW isn't really available. Has anyone else had these problems or heard anything about this?

[tbhounds]

Is this her first uti? Do you know what the ph was of the urine? I would see if she responds to the antibiotics---if she doesn't improve then further diagnostics should be done including culturing the urine and an abdominal radiograph. She should NOT need to be sedated for the rad--usually they start out with just a lateral view-basically she just needs to lay on her side for a minute. Not sure about your hound but, mine are pretty darn good and laying down :-)

Please check the ph--that will help determine if this is diet related.

[Blaidd49]

The type of crystals is also something that needs to be known as different crystals require a different dietary approach

Pam

[Brandiandwe]

Is this her first uti? Do you know what the ph was of the urine? I would see if she responds to the antibiotics---if she doesn't improve then further diagnostics should be done including culturing the urine and an abdominal radiograph. She should NOT need to be sedated for the rad--usually they start out with just a lateral view-basically she just needs to lay on her side for a minute. Not sure about your hound but, mine are pretty darn good and laying down :-)

Please check the ph--that will help determine if this is diet related.

 

Thanks for the responses. This is Brandi's first UTI, but I guess if she has a stone then it's something that has been building for some time. She's on antibiotics and she's not pee'd indoors again but she's still not 'right' (several smaller wees not a big lake which is more normal for her.) By Monday we'll hopefully see some improvement.

 

She might need sedation because she's not great at being away from me. Given that they both need a dental and will be sedated for that, they can just whip her in for the X-ray or ultrasound on the way through to the dental. Loving a well-equipped vet office. We'll also culture the urine as well.

 

The crystals were described to me as 'strontium' which are caused possible by a diet too high in magnesium and phosphate for this particular dog. But I can't see anywhere that TOTW is described as being too high in either of those things, nor causing these particular problems, either stones or UTIs. Bewildering.

[tbhounds]

Do you mean struvites?

http://www.marvistavet.com/html/body_canine_struvite_bladder_stones.html

[JJNg]

First of all, a straightforward bladder infection is much more likely than bladder stones, so don't worry too much yet. If you're concerned, go ahead and do the x-ray, but as tbhounds mentioned, a first time occurrence isn't always an indication for x-rays. If it resolves on antibiotics and she doesn't have further problems, you may not need to go there.

 

I also agree with tbhounds that she really shouldn't need to be sedated for x-rays, or ultrasound for that matter. I almost never sedate or abdominal x-rays, and our local referral center that does ultrasounds rarely, if ever, sedates for those either.

 

Diet doesn't directly cause either bladder infections or bladder stones. The dietary level of magnesium and phosphorus wouldn't cause bladder stones or crystal to form in a normal dog. However, special diets can sometimes help manage dogs that are genetically prone to developing bladder stones.

 

As the previous responses have also mentioned, the pH of her urine, and the type of crystals is important. Since your vet mentioned magnesium and phosphorus, I'm wondering if she has struvite (magnesium ammonium phosaphate) crystals, which are almost always secondary to bladder infections in dogs and have nothing to do with diet. Struvite crystals and stones form when urinary pH is high (alkaline), and certain types of bacterial infections make the urine alkaline. You usually don't get stone formation with acute bladder infections, but they can develop if there's been a chronic, low grade infection over a period of time.

 

Here's a good article about struvite bladder stones in dogs.

[Brandiandwe]

Do you mean struvites?

http://www.marvistav...der_stones.html

 

Yes! Humanities and social sciences scholar here! And more of a visual learner. Thank you!

 

And I shall relax. A bit. She's eating well, won't stop playing, sleeps happily, loves her walks and looks great, so fingers crossed, it will all go well. But thanks for those links. I shall start reading to be prepared for the worst.

Edited August 25, 2012 by Brandiandwe

[JJNg]

I was writing my response while the previous 2 posts were sent, and I see I've linked to the same article that tbhounds did. GMTA

 

My previous post and the article explain why struvite stones are not related to diet. Bladder infections are usually not caused by diet either. Some dogs are just prone to bladder infections the way some women are. Sometimes the anatomy of certain female greyhounds can predispose to infections.

 

I agree that if she's going in for a dental anyway, that's the best time to do the x-rays or ultrasound. However, if she ever needs either of those done in the future, when she's not due for some other procedure under anesthesia, will your vet not allow you to stay with her? With a nervous dog who does better with her owner present, I schedule x-rays at a time when the owner can stay, and the only time they have to step out of the room is for the few seconds to actually snap the x-ray.

 

The only times I ever sedate for x-rays is with an aggressive pet who can't be physically managed without risk of injury to my staff, one who struggles and won't hold still long enough for the x-ray to be taken, or if the positioning is going to be painful (like x-rays for a pelvic fracture). If at all possible, I prefer to avoid the risk of sedation unless absolutely necessary.

[Brandiandwe]

Yep. In future she should be able to go in unsedated. But this is a big step. When we first got her, a visit to the vet was a time for the GSOD when he approached her, even with me being there. She's getting better, but slowly. Thanks for the feedback. Now I can go back to hunting up which paralysis tick medication to use for the coming months - tick season is apparently coming early this year. Yuck.