Osteo Thread

[NeylasMom]

This is the third in a series of threads. The original was started by a few people whose pups were diagnosed around the same time in July of 2010, but it appears it has grown into an ongoing thread that will provide both information and emotional support for anyone who has dealt with losing a pup to osteo, is currently caring for a pup diagnosed with osteo, has one that has been newly diagnosed, or worries they may have to deal with it in the future. You do not have to have a pup that currently has osteo to join in this thread - feel free to stop by if you've ever lost a pup to osteo or other cancer, would like to offer support to those currently dealing with this disease, would like to prepare yourself for the possibility of dealing with this, or if your pup has been diagnosed recently. We've even had a person or two join in whose pups were diagnosed with other forms of cancer. Basically, anyone is welcome although we'd prefer there be no reason to have to welcome anyone or for this thread to exist at all.

 

For those who have recently had a pup diagnosed with osteo, here is some information to hopefully get you started:

Bone Cancer Dogs site - An excellent place to start to get general information about osteo, treatment options, etc.

Journal article on pain mgt - Technically an article on using radiation for palliative (pain management) care, but includes a good overview of the

types of bone cancer pain and the various ways to treat it including medications, radiation, and IV pamidronate

Dog Cancer Blog - Blog from Dr. Dressler, a vet who has dedicated himself to cancer treatment in dogs - includes lots of useful information via blog posts, as well as a link

to purchase his book (which covers all aspects of cancer care, both holistic and traditional) in a downloadable format.

 

The previous osteo threads, the original and part II, with over 100 pages of useful information and support. This is a good place to get specifics if you are wondering about a specific holistic regimen one of us used, the decision making process for choosing amputation or palliative care, etc.

 

For inspiration and some laughs: Winslow's diary

 

For those considering amputation, BigOrangeDog's blog about what to expect.

 

Yahoo groups where you can go for information and support:

 

Dog Bone Cancer Group - not greyhound specific, but a good source of information and support specific to osteosarcoma

Circle of Grey - a greyhound specific support group for owners of pups dealing with all kinds of health issues

Artemisinin and Cancer - for those who would like to pursue artemisinin as part of their treatment regimen, neither greyhound nor osteo specific

 

For those interesting in contacting OSU for a consult, second opinion, appointment, or amputation:

 

Greyhound Health and Wellness Program

Ohio State University College of Veterinary Medicine

601 Vernon Tharp Street

Columbus, Ohio 43210

Phone: (614) 247-6757 or (614) 247-8490

Email: greyosu@osu.edu

Website: http://www.vet.ohio-state.edu/GHWP.htm (registration and fee now required to get full access to this site)

 

For a consultation, you must use the online consultation service found here. Do NOT contact Dr. Couto directly or you will not receive a timely response.

 

The consult is free but if you can afford to support the program please do so. You can sign up for full access to the website ($99 per calendar year) or donate through the giving page on the website. If you decide to donate, you can double your money by giving through the Greyhound Project. They will match the funds that you donate. Just go to this website and scroll down to the appropriate donation button: http://www.adopt-a-greyhound.org/donate.shtml.

 

Keep in mind that OSU does 20 to 30 greyhound consults a day along with all of their "in canine" patients. Depending on their workload there may be a wait for the consultation. If you are contacting them on an emergency basis, please let them know.

 

If you want to make an appointment to be seen in person/canine, you can call the main number to set up a date/time. The main number for the veterinary hospital is 614-292-3551. This information is also on the consultation service page.

 

If you decide to visit OSU please contact Jane (joejoesmom). She may be able to put you up in a local home, provide moral support, or just help with logistics: Finewhipador-drool@yahoo.com[/i]

 

If you wish to help further osteosarcoma research, 2 labs that are collecting samples and have specifically requested greyhound samples:

 

Modiano Lab - Need tissue from a biopsy and blood; will send a collection kit and a prepaid return mailer; also accepting samples for hemangiosarcoma and lyphoma

Website: http://www.modianolab.org/studyInfo/studyInfo_index.shtml

Contact person: Mitzi, 612-626-6890, lewel001@umn.edu

 

Broad Institute - Blood samples only, may be able to help with shipping costs, but they prefer you cover them

Website: http://www.broadinstitute.org/science/projects/mammals-models/dog/disease-research/sending-samples

Contact info: dog-info@broadinstitute.org, FAX: (617) 324-2722

 

Both labs require signed consent forms and samples must be shipped overnight.

Edited October 25, 2011 by NeylasMom

[MP_the4pack]

This is a thread I wish wasn't needed.

[BauersMom]

Vet called. She said that Berkeley is totally freaking out at being at the vet. He's hyperventilating, heart racing, temp rising... basically a nervous wreck. She was very concerned. She doesn't think it's pain-related but more mental state, which I tend to agree knowing him. Unless something happens, she wants him home tomorrow morning.

 

The good news is that he pulled a vet tech right out the door trying to 'escape' so no concerns on him getting around.

[Charlies_Dad]

Vet called. She said that Berkeley is totally freaking out at being at the vet. He's hyperventilating, heart racing, temp rising... basically a nervous wreck. She was very concerned. She doesn't think it's pain-related but more mental state, which I tend to agree knowing him. Unless something happens, she wants him home tomorrow morning.

 

The good news is that he pulled a vet tech right out the door trying to 'escape' so no concerns on him getting around.

 

I agree, bring him home as soon as you can. Some pups just don't do well at vets which is understandable. The pain meds will also cause them to be restless as well so bear that in mind when he does come back home. Knowing that the vet is concerned, is there anything they can give him to calm him down somewhat? Or can he come home earlier than tomorrow morning?

[NeylasMom]

Knowing that the vet is concerned, is there anything they can give him to calm him down somewhat?

That's what I was going to ask. Then again, some of the meds he's on could be causing the anxiety, but the vet should be able to figure that out. More than likely, he's less dopey today due to less meds or the anesthesia completely wearing off and is getting scared. Hopefully they can calm him down and he can come home soon.

 

This is a thread I wish wasn't needed.

You can say that again.

[BauersMom]

She has him on clomicalm currently and will be sending some home with him. She says he will calm down and sleep but then wakes up a mess. The earliest she's comfortable with is tomorrow but we will be there asap to get him!

[joejoesmom]

Vet called. She said that Berkeley is totally freaking out at being at the vet. He's hyperventilating, heart racing, temp rising... basically a nervous wreck. She was very concerned. She doesn't think it's pain-related but more mental state, which I tend to agree knowing him. Unless something happens, she wants him home tomorrow morning.

 

The good news is that he pulled a vet tech right out the door trying to 'escape' so no concerns on him getting around.

 

 

OSU keeps greys quite doped up for the first 36 to 48 hours with a combination of fentanyl, lidocaine, and ketamine. Unfortunately, this is a fairly common response in our beloved but ultra-sensitive breed. If your vet wants information on OSU's post op protocol, she can call them at 614-292-3551. Have her ask for the amputation protocol for greyhounds and the main desk will get her in touch with the right people. It might take a bit of time so she could have her assistant set up the phone call.

 

If you can handle nursing him, perhaps coming home is the best answer, but be prepared for a lack of sleep and a painful, fearful Berkeley. It is very hard. I am glad my Joe stayed in the hospital as long as he did for my sake.

 

Jane

[joejoesmom]

Twister passed very peacefully yesterday. Her vet came to my house and did a wonderful job. Shelby and Joe were there to say goodbye. Shelby was very worried shortly after she realized that Twister had passed, but is doing much better now. My poor Joe is still suffering. He is clearly unhappy, hasn't wanted to eat, and has soft stools. He and Twister had taken to sleeping together for the last month. Joe would "spoon" Twisty and she was just the right size to fit easily under his chest and between his front and rear legs. I'm sure it doesn't help him that I am also mourning.

 

I have talked to OSU regarding all this and also about the thunderstorms on the way (Joe is extremely thunderphobic). They recommended adding some fiber to his diet, doing a 5 day course of metronidazole, and using valium before the storms. They don't want to risk dehydration and throw him into a spiral that would necessitate taking him off his chemo.

 

Jane

Edited July 22, 2011 by joejoesmom

[BauersMom]

I'm so sorry, Jane. :grouphug

[greysmom]

Jane! Poor Joe! Mourning can set them off in their own way, so I hope you can find something that will help him.

 

BauersMom, from the other thread, I like the pen idea, just be aware that they can have a hard time getting around on flooring that is too soft. Dude tended and still tends to trip when walking over the dog beds. And the meds can exacerbate that unsteadiness as well.

 

The clomicalm might not be doing him much good as it's a drug that needs time to build to a clinical dosage (usually a couple weeks). Valium or xanax might be better options. (Then there is always the very controversial acepromazine.) Tramadol might also make him anxious.

[BauersMom]

I thought about the softness/tripping issue - similar to what we've experienced with the broken leg dogs and the FCE rehab. The bed I put in the pen is the memory foam one, think that's ok?

 

He's been on tramadol before without issue but I don't know about the other meds (fentanyl, lidocaine, I already forget what else). I know she said she was keeping him pretty sedated for the rest of the day, but I don't know if that meant like totally out of it or what. I was too frazzled to ask, honestly, but I know she was doing what she could to keep him calm.

 

I didn't even think about the clomicalm not taking effect - but you're right. Huh, I already knew that. [i know there's such a thing as pregnancy brain, is there also an osteo brain? Because I have it.]

 

He's coming home with gabapentin, deramaxx, tramadol and the clomicalm. And I do have xanax here, if needed. Should I see about switching him over to xanax on an as needed basis when he comes home instead of continuing the clomicalm?

 

I did have to chuckle at the thought of him dragging a vet tech out the door, though. Yep, that's my dog.

 

(and you can call me Emma)

[RedFawnMom]

Hugs to you Jane.

[krissn333]

Jane

 

Emma, I hope that Berkeley will be happier when he comes home I agree that Xanax is probably a good choice. Just remember that it's tough at first but things will get better. Sounds like he's got no problem getting around...so that's good

[Guest juliagulia630]

Jane I am so sorry for your loss. I will always remember all the help you gave me and James while he was at OSU. Your dogs are so lucky to have you!

James is starting to go downhill. He started that dreaded cough yesterday, very sporadically. In fact, I really thought it was just something stuck in his throat. Then today he coughed up a quarter sized dark colored clump of tissue surrounded by blood. I can only imagine it is part of the tumor is his lung. He is not in any distress, resting comfortably, and eating well. We just got back from a nice walk and he tolerated it fine. I will put a call in to our vet in the morning. Anyone have any thoughts?

[JJNg]

He's coming home with gabapentin, deramaxx, tramadol and the clomicalm. And I do have xanax here, if needed. Should I see about switching him over to xanax on an as needed basis when he comes home instead of continuing the clomicalm?

I'd definitely consider switching him to Xanax if you feel he will continue to need medication for anxiety. Gabapentin actually has some anti-anxiety effects too, so you may find that once he's home, he may not need anything additional.

 

Clomicalm is really not an appropriate choice for immediate, short-term anxiety. Unless he was already on Clomicalm for another reason, it won't provide him with any relief if it was just started today. While you may see an effect in some dogs after 1-2 weeks, it can take up to 3-4 weeks for Clomicalm to really kick in. I don't see any reason to continue the Clomicalm if you're just trying to treat his immediate post-op anxiety as that should be long gone by the time it kicks in. It seems your vet might not be very experienced with behavioral meds?

[BauersMom]

I would guess she doesn't! But I would think the ICU vets who are monitoring him would have known? I dunno.

 

He did/does have separation anxiety but managed without meds - he's never been on clomicalm. I'll move him over to xanax as needed - at this point, I don't see any reason to keep him on the clomicalm.

 

Sorry to hear about James not doing well. Hugs.

[Charlies_Dad]

James is starting to go downhill. He started that dreaded cough yesterday, very sporadically. In fact, I really thought it was just something stuck in his throat. Then today he coughed up a quarter sized dark colored clump of tissue surrounded by blood. I can only imagine it is part of the tumor is his lung. He is not in any distress, resting comfortably, and eating well. We just got back from a nice walk and he tolerated it fine. I will put a call in to our vet in the morning. Anyone have any thoughts?

 

Julia, I am sorry to read this. It does sound like it's progressing. I would suggest talking to your vet but I'm not sure what they will recommend. Give James a big hug from me please.

 

Jane, I am very sorry about Twistmas passing and the effect it's having on Joe.

[BauersMom]

On our way home with Berkeley - new and improved, now with fewer legs!

 

He is moving better than I expected - we have the sling on him, but haven't really needed it. But man he hated the vet. He is starting to the relax now in the car.

[krissn333]

That's great news! Continued good thoughts for restful healing for Berkeley

[greysmom]

Jane I am so sorry for your loss. I will always remember all the help you gave me and James while he was at OSU. Your dogs are so lucky to have you!

James is starting to go downhill. He started that dreaded cough yesterday, very sporadically. In fact, I really thought it was just something stuck in his throat. Then today he coughed up a quarter sized dark colored clump of tissue surrounded by blood. I can only imagine it is part of the tumor is his lung. He is not in any distress, resting comfortably, and eating well. We just got back from a nice walk and he tolerated it fine. I will put a call in to our vet in the morning. Anyone have any thoughts?

 

 

On our way home with Berkeley - new and improved, now with fewer legs!

 

He is moving better than I expected - we have the sling on him, but haven't really needed it. But man he hated the vet. He is starting to the relax now in the car.

 

 

So sorry to hear James is progressing now. This makes me very sad. We're thinking of you and your family.

 

for Berkeley!!! Home is best!

 

We brought a sling home for Dude but never used it. The *first* thing he did when he came home was go out in the yard - he startled us he was so fast and got away from both of us! - and ran around sniffing and had a big poop before we could help him. We used the harness mostly, but even that was just to steady him. Until he started using the stairs.

[BauersMom]

Technically, what we have is more harness than sling - but it's really intended for two front legs, so it's slipping up on his leg-less side.

 

He went into the yard, hopped down and up the ramp no problem! He ate a few bites of meatloaf and is hanging out in his pen now. MUCH happier than at the vet.

 

He has a seroma at the bottom of his incision which we need to hot pack 4 times daily. Other than that, he looks really good. I was more nervous this morning than I was the day we dropped him off for surgery!

[krissn333]

I'm so glad he's happier at home! A very good decision to bring him home. Hope his seroma goes away soon

[RedFawnMom]

Technically, what we have is more harness than sling - but it's really intended for two front legs, so it's slipping up on his leg-less side.

 

He went into the yard, hopped down and up the ramp no problem! He ate a few bites of meatloaf and is hanging out in his pen now. MUCH happier than at the vet.

 

He has a seroma at the bottom of his incision which we need to hot pack 4 times daily. Other than that, he looks really good. I was more nervous this morning than I was the day we dropped him off for surgery!

 

I'm so happy to hear he's doing so well!!! It sounds like he's adjusting just fine.

 

Lucy had a very bad seroma that got worse and worse. They're not dangerous, but it was making it difficult for her to get around. Even though we were doing the hot packing, we were at the point where the vet was going to have to drain it, but that is unusual. The day we were going to take her in to have it drained, she managed to pull out two of her staples when I left the room for 2 minutes, so the fluid slowly leaked out and the vet was ok with not replacing the staples since it was almost healed.

 

Keep us posted on how he's doing!

[Charlies_Dad]

Greyt news that Berk is better back home. I am sure you will have your hands full and we'll all wait patiently for updates as the days pass by.

[EllenEveBaz]

((((Twisty's family))))

 

((((James and family))))

 

Go, Berkster!