New Food & Lots Of Gas

[Guest Lmw626]

Okay so I have had a food saga with Two Point since getting him in March 2010.

 

He was on Nutro (I think) when I got him and that was really not great, like a cow lived in the backyard). Immediately started to move him to a new food.

 

First tried Avoderm Lamb & Rice at the suggestion of a friend with greys because his coat was retched when he arrived. That produced seriously bad gas so I didn't stick with it for long.

 

I switched him to Blue Buffalo Wilderness Salmon (2 cups, twice a day) and that was ok, good poops but lots of it, and terrible "sewage" breath. For the record, he does not eat poop but he had seriously awful breath. He was on this from April to December 2010. In December, vet diagnosed him with acid reflux and allergies (the sneezing/stuffy nose kind, not the food-related biting/scratching kind) and had me put him on Pepcid AC and Claritan tablets daily. I also started putting an Omega cap for his skin/coat at that time and it has improved considerably. He also get's Geneflora powder probiotics in his food.

 

At the point of the acid reflux diagnosis, we switched to EVO fish formula, less poop, same acid reflux, breath stayed the same, very very bad. Also he seemed to inhale this food as if he hadn't eaten in a week. After eating (2 cups, twice a day) he would go back to the bowl several times looking for more food. He behaved like he was starving all the time, however he was not losing weight, he was gaining. He's gone from 76lbs off the track 12/31/09 to 84lbs right now. He would also drink a ton of water. He was on this from about December to early May when I briefly tried Pro-Plan Chicken and Rice to see if a grain food would make him feel more satisfied, and that consistently produced retching and vomiting within an hour of feeding.

 

I decided to try Orijen 6 Fish in late May. Ridiculously expensive but I've been giving him less of it and almost overnight the breath went from raw sewage to practically smelling like roses. Poops were runny at first but have become mostly normal, they still get a bit runny again every few days then back to normal again. He seems to like it and instead of behaving like he's constantly hungry, he sometimes even leaves a little in the bowl, something he has never done on any of the other foods. He's getting 1.75 cups, twice a day on the Orijen. The ONLY problem on Orijen (other than the insane price) is gas. He hadn't really had a gas issue since the Avoderm well over a year ago and now on the Orijen, it's a daily occurrence and it's bad, quickly fills up two rooms of the house.

 

I love that the Orijen is very natural and all made in Canada vs. imported ingredients from who knows where. It has resolved the breath problem and he seems to be satisfied in terms of hunger, but the gas is killing us.

 

Does anyone have any suggestions on the gas or even on the food? I do give him pumpkin when he has major diarrhea issues but not on a regular basis. I occasionally give him yogurt but not as often now that i do the Geneflora add-in. The gas issue did not begin until the Orijen did, he didn't have gas problems when eating BB or EVO with the pepcid/claritan/omega/flora so I know it's the food and not the supplements.

 

Also, he had a vet checkup in mid-June shortly after starting the Orijen, with full blood and urine workup. He's worm-free but BUN/Creat were slightly high and thyroid was slightly low but he has zero symptoms of hypothyroid and his urine concentration was perfect. Vet said high levels could be due to the high protein food and we'll check again in 3 months to make sure they are not still climbing.

[Trudy]

Try a different protein of the Orijen. You didn't want to be around Ryan if he ate chicken based food.

[Burpdog]

Origen is what I call a "hot" food. Try lowering the amount you are feeding him. If that doesn't work, do as Trudy suggests and change the protein. And if that doesn't work, try a different food

[Guest Lmw626]

I misspoke before, he is on 1.5 cups twice a day and last night and today I lowered it a bit to 1 cup at feedings and stepped up the yogurt add-in... still no relief! Can I expect the usual food-switching side-effects when going from one protein to the next within the same brand?

 

I have no experience with beef, turkey or lamb based foods other than the very brief stint on Avoderm Lamb/Rice. I put him on a fish protein and kept him there mainly because his skin/coat were so bad when I got him I thought the extra oils would do him some good. Any other issues with non-fish proteins that I should know about?

 

I'm half tempted to go back to the Blue Buffalo Wilderness but for the fact his breath was so unbelievably bad while on it and that I've read they have had some quality control issues. I'm really at a loss for where to go next in terms of different brands.

 

For treats he gets Blue Buffalo Health Bars, I know they contain oatmeal but I've had hard time finding a grain-free treat that didn't cause loose stool, they all seem quite rich, especially when eaten on top of rich kibble.

Edited June 30, 2011 by Lmw626

[Guest the1sen]

Hi!

 

Here are a few things to note before I tell you my findings:

 

A. we tried pumpkin like you, and it didn't work for our pup.

 

B. we tried yogurt like you, and it didn't work for our pup.

 

C. we have tried: Iams, Honest Kitchen, Kirkland Lamb & Rice, Evo, Innova, Purina, Orijen, and have finally landed on Acana.

 

 

I had a couple of suggestions for you - not sure if anyone mentioned this stuff before, but... Excessive gas in canines is a product of a few things:

 

1. If a dog is susceptible to bloat and you feed him/her kibble, try soaking the kibble for 30 minutes, .75-.5 cups of water per cup of food. This will help the expansion process in their digestive tract and eliminate a lot of gas. You can actually SEE the food expand, and it gives off quite a bit of gas that would otherwise be expelled through the dog's digestive tract.

 

2. If 1 doesn't work after a few days, try a different protein source, or a less rich source, like Acana by the makers of Orijen... Some dogs (and their people) have gas when they eat chicken, or pork, or beef, or fish... gotta find what's good with their tummy.

 

3. If 1 & 2 only work for a period of time, then your baby may have a food intolerance, which simply means you need to rotate the type of protein and ingredients you feed them every 2-3 bags of food.

 

Our baby, On Your Marc Get Set GO (a.k.a. Marco), has been a problem child with every food we have tried since we got him 2.5 years ago. About a year ago, we THOUGHT we found a resolution with Kirkland Lamb & Rice by rehydrating 2.5 cups of kibble x2, daily for 30 minutes with 2 cups of water. About 5 months ago, Tom Carvel kept showing up during bathroom times, and heaven help the person who decided to come home first from work...

 

We discovered that we will have to rotate his food, due to digestive intolerance, and that he has a wheat allergy to boot. Since we switched to Acana a week ago (rehydrating it of course), his deathly mustard gas is mostly gone, his stool is no longer the product of Tom Carvel, and his energy level is THROUGH THE ROOF...

 

As many have mentioned, you have to feed them whatever works for them. In our case, Acana seems to be the one for us... but no matter what kibble you feed your baby, be sure to add water and let it sit for 30 minutes...

 

PS... as a side note, we usually leave the food bowl in the Microwave to sit for 30 minutes so that the smell doesn't proliferate throughout the house.

[Guest Swifthounds]

The gas could be from the protein source, or it could be from one of the carb sources in the food. It can also be from too much food. Also, gas can sometimes taper off Ftee at least 6 weeks or so on a food. Kibble fed dogs have GI tracts unaccustomed to change, and change alone can cause gas.

 

Given the acid in a dog's stomach, yogurt is pretty useless other than as a treat.

 

I would probably try a slow switch over to a different protein source of the same food and see if that helps. You can increase the fish oil to bowel tolerance up to 300mgs DHA/EPA every 10 - 30 # of body weight if you're concerned about akin/coat.

[Greytlady94]

I misspoke before, he is on 1.5 cups twice a day and last night and today I lowered it a bit to 1 cup at feedings and stepped up the yogurt add-in... still no relief! Can I expect the usual food-switching side-effects when going from one protein to the next within the same brand?

 

I have no experience with beef, turkey or lamb based foods other than the very brief stint on Avoderm Lamb/Rice. I put him on a fish protein and kept him there mainly because his skin/coat were so bad when I got him I thought the extra oils would do him some good. Any other issues with non-fish proteins that I should know about?

 

I'm half tempted to go back to the Blue Buffalo Wilderness but for the fact his breath was so unbelievably bad while on it and that I've read they have had some quality control issues. I'm really at a loss for where to go next in terms of different brands.

 

For treats he gets Blue Buffalo Health Bars, I know they contain oatmeal but I've had hard time finding a grain-free treat that didn't cause loose stool, they all seem quite rich, especially when eaten on top of rich kibble.

 

Have you tried completely stopping all treats, chews etc. while on this food?

[Guest Lmw626]

Thanks for the additional advice and I can fully relate to The1sen's experience with Marco. I do put water in his food at each feeding it's the only thing that keeps him from choking because he eats so fast. He basically sucks the food out of the bowl, does not chew it. I have tried the tennis ball, an upside down ramekin in the center of the bowl, the bowls with separators to slow them down... it's all the same, he inhales the food so those things don't slow him down. What helps is adding water, then he sort of "drinks" his food and is able to swallow it easier than when it's dry. However, I have never tried soaking the food for 30 minutes. The explanation of why it helps Marco makes sense to me, I will try that later today.

 

I have tried stopping treats, actually I stopped them at the initial point of switching to Orijen thinking it would be too much all at once. The gas started as soon as the Orijen Fish did so I eventually started the treats again thinking they weren't going to make it worse and they haven't. Other than looking at me with those what-did-I-do-wrong eyes, nothing changed.

 

On Friday, 7/1, I decided to try the alternate protein source suggestion from above and got a bag of Orijen Regional Red. So far (only three feedings in) he has a slight pudding stool, but really no more than he had popping up every few days on the Orijen Fish so that's good, and the same gas. I think we are still working some fish out of his system so I can't report anything yet except that it has not caused anything awful like vomiting and no diarrhea as of yet. No, I'm not transitioning him, I am moving him cold-turkey. I know that's "controversial" and some people will be bothered, but I have transitioned before and gone cold-turkey before and every time the reaction is the same except transitioning just makes it last longer. I'm starting him on 1.5 cups twice a day. If this doesn't work then I'm going to step down on the protein to Acana.

 

The1sen you said pumpkin does not work for Marco. Pumpkin does work for Two Point when he has diarrhea but not as well as it did when I first got him. In the beginning, it worked like a charm, almost too well actually. Now it simple firms it up enough to somewhat poop-shaped, no longer pudding, but still very soft. I make a habit of only giving it to him when he really needs it.

 

Swifthounds - I had been told that about yogurt so I started using Geneflora powder about a year ago. It may or may not work better than yogurt but he seems to have less rumbling tummy on it. Regarding his coat, wow was it bad when he arrived from the track. He really looked more like he had been roaming the streets for years. His coat was stiff and brittle like straw and there was a large patch on his rump where the fur was broken off. No fur on his belly, the backs of his back legs, his chest or under his neck and most of his belly and the outside of one back leg were covered in blackheads and pimples, some of which looked terribly impacted and infected! And all the skin on his chest was flaking off. Hence the initial suggestion for Avoderm and then why I put him on a fish based food. Since then with various treatments and regular bathings, the acne is improving and the broken patch of hair is resolved but overall he still felt like he had fur made of straw and still sometimes flaky skin. I tried several times in the first year to introduce a fish oil supplement but always in liquid form added to his food. Even the smallest amount immediately produces very runny diarrhea that wouldn't subside until I stopped the oil. Finally I found Omega Caps ES for Large and Giant Breeds. They contain 360mg EPA, 240mg DHA, 400iu Vit A, 100iu Vit D and 4iu Vit E. It says 1 cap per day for 60-80lbs and 2 for 80+lbs. He's at 83.5 so I started him on 1 cap per day expecting the same result as the liquid but it never happened. His stool was fine and within a few weeks the fur is much softer! I'm so thrilled that something finally worked for him! Given those ingredients and his size would you say he could stand a second cap per day after all the other food changes are totally complete and he is settled?

[Guest the1sen]

Hi again,

 

I wish you good luck with the food soaking for a while. As an FYI, Orijen is such a high quality food - you will not see so much of an expansion in the food, but it will soften, making it easier for our mutual vacuum-like hounds to digest. LOL

 

We moved Marco immediately with Acana also and much to our surprise, the improvement was immediate. I'm wondering if Orijen is just too rich for your baby?

 

Yeah, when he has the runs, it's BAD. The ONLY thing that helps him during those times is Metronidizol(sp?)... The only thing pumpkin did was make his poop attract less flies.

 

Before we switched his food, we found Marco devouring carpet off one of our cat trees while we were sleeping just before his latest diarrhea episode. Yes, our Greyhound is a carpet muncher. We think that while we were feeding him 6+ cups of food per day, he was starving somehow because of all the grain and whatnot in his food... I cant tell you how badly I still feel about that. We were finally able to correlate his sickening diarrhea to a food (well, something he was EATING anyway...)! Since then, we covered the trees so he can't eat them, but he still didn't improve beyond Tom Carvel poop and mustard gas explosions from his butt.

 

So, we switched his food, and Acana has saved him... He's gained a few pounds in the past few days and he's MUCH more energetic, happy (tail constantly up) and he's even SLEEPING better... eyes closed, no nightmares... like a baby.

 

As frustrating as it is, you will eventually find the right one for your baby. It took us nearly 2.5 years, but it seems we have.

Edited July 4, 2011 by the1sen

[Guest Lmw626]

So far the red meat based Orijen has not made any change in the gas, actually it might be even more toxic now. Even with soaking. We may have to move to Acana after all. I'm going to give it a little more time. Poops are also perhaps slightly better so far. No diarrhea, just semi-soft but mostly formed.

 

Two Point does have lots of nightmares, or at least that's what they sound like, lots of yelping and crying and panting. Happens at least 3-5 times a week, sometime several times in one night.

[Guest the1sen]

Sadly, I'm uncertain if Acana will do it for you... Wish I did know. Do you have a Costco near you? Their Lamb and Rice (soaked for 30 minutes) was good with Marco for a while before he developed the intolerance. I hate to tell you how well Marco is doing on Acana, and then have you buy it and it fail you!

 

In all sincerity, we have suffered through your pain for the past 2.5 years until we found Acana... EACH DOG really is different!

 

My friend swears on RAW food. Another swears on EVO, another on Kirkland... as I mentioned, we tried them all and then some, and 2.5 years later (and heaven knows how many eye watering farts later...) we wound up on Acana... LOL I can't tell you how much we spent on all the different foods and medications, and probiotics, and supplements...

 

Our boy is particularly thin accentuated by his height... very large boy. We've never been able to get him to gain weight, or get past 83 pounds, ribs show badly no matter how much we feed him... Marco got weighed at Petsmart today and he was 87 pounds! HE LOOKS GREAT! Looking forward to his coat filling in and shining up.

 

When you find the right food, you'll get a lot of great results in addition to the gas relief.

 

THERE IS HOPE! :-)

Edited July 6, 2011 by the1sen