Surviving Osteo Past 3 Months

[NeylasMom]

In all of the posts about osteo dx, I only remember 2 people who said that their dogs made it longer than about 3 months post dx without amputation. Are their others?

 

For those that did, did you do x-rays at various points to check progression, or any other tests and what were the results? Were you doing any treatments or holistic supplements? Do you think you caught it very early, or just happened to get a slow progressing case?

 

Thanks.

[teri_d]

In all of the posts about osteo dx, I only remember 2 people who said that their dogs made it longer than about 3 months post dx without amputation. Are their others?

 

For those that did, did you do x-rays at various points to check progression, or any other tests and what were the results? Were you doing any treatments or holistic supplements? Do you think you caught it very early, or just happened to get a slow progressing case?

 

Thanks.

 

jen -- thank you for starting this thread. how is neyla doing? of course, we are not near there yet and i was hoping when i started reading that you were offering your advise here. i am MOST interested in your experiences, advise, help. i know rivie's is a bit different since it is on her rib not a leg - but i would love any help as we progress. we have a vet appt in the morning to remove her biopsy stitches (it was 2 weeks ago today) and he said he has some things to discuss with us, so i'll let you know if he has anything of interest. i did order the artemisinin, i look for it to arrive this week (i hope). rivie is eating very well - i boil chicken breasts in boullion then process in the food processor, mix with a little evo, and then anything else i think she might like - cottage cheese, green beans, etc. she is taking 300 mg gabapentin both am and pm for pain. is this routine ok? do you think exercise/walks are ok? any help you can offer to the rest of us is so appreciated. our prayers are with neyla and you, jen. thank you for helping the rest of us.

[GreyPoopon]

Tally lasted 16 weeks. She could have gone at least a few days longer, but I knew what was going to happen.

 

We caught it fairly early. At first we did x-rays every couple of weeks, but the OS was progressing steadily and not all that rapidly, and the x-rays were uncomfortable for her, so we cut the frequency to about once a month. She'd had her last set--showing progress but not anything terrifying--just a week before she suddenly went very lame.

 

She was on pain meds only, which were adjusted each time she started limping. At first it was Metacam, then we added Tramadol, then more frequent Tramadol, then a higher dosage. She was on the maximum dosages of both at the end.

 

Cora? I don't know. I suspect the OS was there, but not visible, when she broke her leg in March. I'm sure it was there and hiding behind the repair hardware when she started limping again in August. She lasted another couple of months, on pain meds only.

[NeylasMom]

 

jen -- thank you for starting this thread. how is neyla doing? of course, we are not near there yet and i was hoping when i started reading that you were offering your advise here. i am MOST interested in your experiences, advise, help. i know rivie's is a bit different since it is on her rib not a leg - but i would love any help as we progress. we have a vet appt in the morning to remove her biopsy stitches (it was 2 weeks ago today) and he said he has some things to discuss with us, so i'll let you know if he has anything of interest. i did order the artemisinin, i look for it to arrive this week (i hope). rivie is eating very well - i boil chicken breasts in boullion then process in the food processor, mix with a little evo, and then anything else i think she might like - cottage cheese, green beans, etc. she is taking 300 mg gabapentin both am and pm for pain. is this routine ok? do you think exercise/walks are ok? any help you can offer to the rest of us is so appreciated. our prayers are with neyla and you, jen. thank you for helping the rest of us.

How did the suture removal go? How is Rivie doing? I hardly feel like I can offer much info - we're almost 2 1/2 months post dx at this point and Neyla is still doing well, which I am so grateful for, but I have no idea if it's our holistic treatments, just getting lucky with a slow moving form, we just caught it early and the worst is soon to come, or some combination. Holding out hope for one of hte first two. I don't know how different the cancer is when it's in the rib, but I have read that to manage pain you need multiple types of pain meds so if you think she may be uncomfortable you might want to add Tramadol and an NSAID (Rimadyl, Deramaxx, etc.). For Neyla, it seems the anti-inflammatory was really what she needed when she had breakthrough pain. As for exercise, my vets told me I could do whatever she seemed comfortable with. We've actually done more exercise since her dx b/c the Deramaxx is also helping with the arthritis in her back toe (different leg) - go figure.

 

She'd had her last set--showing progress but not anything terrifying--just a week before she suddenly went very lame.

Thanks for sharing your stories. This is what I am most scared of. It's really weird to go from a state of feeling like your dog's death is imminent to wondering if you have months left. I want to just let myself think the latter so I can worry less and just enjoy this time, but then I'm worried that I won't be prepared for the inevitable. I guess in the end being prepared isn't going to do much to assuage my grief so I should just enjoy this time.

 

My plan moving forward is to continue to do x-rays every 2 months, or if she starts to show signs of pain. She's very stressed by going to the vet so I'm hesitant to do it more frequently (not to mention how freaking expensive it is and that it takes my ortho 2-3 days to get the x-ray to my oncologist ).

 

THanks for hte input so far. Curious to hear from anyone else. Jettcricket, jackandgrey, you out there?

[teri_d]

thank you so much for the reply. rivie did get her suctures out this morning (from the biopsy). and the dr did add tramadol! he was really pleased that she was eating so well (loves the chicken breasts) and taking her meds good. the artemisinin still hasn't come - i was so wanting to start that this week! thanks so much - please keep in touch!! teri

[RileysLegacy]

Thanks for sharing your stories. This is what I am most scared of. It's really weird to go from a state of feeling like your dog's death is imminent to wondering if you have months left. I want to just let myself think the latter so I can worry less and just enjoy this time, but then I'm worried that I won't be prepared for the inevitable. I guess in the end being prepared isn't going to do much to assuage my grief so I should just enjoy this time.

 

Jen, I just wanted to comment on this. No matter what, I don't think you can prepare yourself for when the time comes. It won't help, and you may regret it. So please, enjoy this time as best you can, cherish every day, and try not to think about the future. I had about 5 days when I knew the exact day and time Riley was going to die, and I spent way too much of it being sad and trying to prepare myself. Now I wish I had enjoyed every last second we had together. You are going to be sad when the time comes, there is no point in being sad ahead of time (I know this is way easier said than done).

 

I am so glad that Neyla is still doing well, I hope everyone dealing with this horrible disease has a lot more good times ahead

[krissn333]

Jen, as you know we are just past 3 months since Sutra's diagnosis. I don't really feel that we caught it "early"...I need to get the CDs of his xrays to share with you.

 

He had an xray the day they did his FNA, and then he just had another set done on the 2nd. I am not sure when we will do another set.

 

I do believe that his case is slow moving...I'm thankful for that. He is still happy, eats like a champ, and roos at me for fig newtons every chance he gets

 

Treatment-wise he is on artemisinin, joint health tabs and longevity powder from Springtime Inc., and is receiving pamidronate infusions every 28 days.

 

He takes Deramaxx as needed. Sometimes he doesn't need it at all, sometimes he does. He also takes robaxin (muscle relaxer) as needed - if he does something to his neck it tends to make the leg with the cancer hurt (it's really weird) and the robaxin seems to help calm the neck muscle down until I can get him to the chiropractor.

[Jackandgrey]

Jack lived 6 months post diagnosis. I didn't take ever him back to the vet again. I would have if I needed to but we didn't. I just talked to her about additions and adjustments to medications. I believe he had a slow growing tumour.

 

I should also say that after awhile, I started to let Jack do pretty much what he was comfortable doing within reason. There was some risk for sure, but I reasoned in the end, he was going to live happily for however long or short a time. If I had not let him do the things that made him happy there was no point.

Edited July 23, 2010 by Jackandgrey

[NeylasMom]

Jack lived 6 months post diagnosis. I didn't take ever him back to the vet again. I would have if I needed to but we didn't. I just talked to her about additions and adjustments to medications. I believe he had a slow growing tumour.

 

I should also say that after awhile, I started to let Jack do pretty much what he was comfortable doing within reason. There was some risk for sure, but I reasoned in the end, he was going to live happily for however long or short a time. If I had not let him do the things that made him happy there was no point.

Did things go downhill quickly, or did you just gradually increase/add meds over time? I hope you don't mind me asking detailed questions - I don't want to make you relive anything painful. Please ignore me if you don't want to talk about it.

 

I agree on letting htem do the things they want. I don't have a yard so I don't have to worry about running off lead - that's the one thing I would restrict, but Neyla is allowed to run around the condo playing as much as she wants. I do try to exercise a reasonable amt of caution (careful about her brother not knocking her around on stairs, built stairs to get on/off the couch & bed, etc.), but mostly if she's not in pain, I let her do what she feels like.

 

Rileysmom - point taken. I will take your advice to heart.

[Bevd]

Maddison (aged 4) had fibrosarcoma, not osteo. He was not a candidate for amputation due to the location of the tumour (top of femur, hip etc). He was on pain meds but sadly we only had about 6 weeks from diagnosis. One night he just turned over and really hurt his leg so the time had arrived to arrange his final journey. Prior to that night though, we'd let him do what he wanted to to, including running and playing. It was a calculated risk. I'm glad he had a lovely final few weeks but I'm still sad that we weren't able to amputate for him because it being fibro, the odds are better than for the other evil thing.

 

Sending best wishes

[MerlinsMum]

I don't have any advice but I am happy to hear that Neyla is still doing well, and that her osteo seems to be progressing so slowly. :goodluck

[Guest dwolfe711]

We are so sorry for Neyla's diagnosis - hugs to you both.

 

It's long but I'll share our experiences with you as we've had a lot of cancer experience in the past 18 years. All were seniors and not candidates for amp so we controlled with pain meds until it was time to say goodbye.

 

Elaine was 11 when diagnosed with OS in her left shoulder - we had adopted her three weeks before so did not know her personality. She was only our second grey and our first with OS. She was given six weeks so we treated with pain meds. What we did not know is that she was a truly feisty old girl who did not know she was sick and was absolutely not going anywhere in six weeks! The tumor on her shoulder grew slowly - she dealt with it - and then after about 3 or 4 months it started receding - we thought it was growing inward. We wished later we had taken more x-rays but we didn't because we thought her time was short. The lump virtually disappeared on the outside and although she favored that leg a bit she got around on it just fine. It wasn't until about 9 months past diagnosis that the tumor grew outward again and she started to limp more so we upped her meds. At the end she was not using that leg at all and was virtually a tripod with four legs. She still was not ready to give up and was still her old feisty self - but a few days before we had to let her go she started to limp on her other front leg and we could see the formation of a tumor on her other shoulder. Although she fought to the end, we had to send her to the bridge as she could barely stand up with both front legs being involved. If we had known her better and had known more about OS and amp and hers had been operable, we probably would have opted for amputation at diagnosis - I think she would have been an awesome candidate for a tripod. It had obviously not spread to her lungs at diagnosis and she had the personality and stamina and will to live to have survived an amp. We will never know now but she sure did live those last ten months with everything she had.

 

Red was diagnosed with OS in his shoulder soon after Elaine - he was 12 with a weak rearend and we opted to treat with pain meds. His was obviously very fast moving and within five weeks of diagnosis he was ready to go.

 

Lizzy was 14.5 when she broke her rear leg running in the yard - of course the x-rays showed OS and she went to the bridge that day - she never limped and we had no idea she had it.

 

Duncan was diagnosed with OS at age 12 - his was in a front leg - he was a sweet omega boy and we knew he would never tolerate amp so we treated his with pain meds. He went to the bridge 3 months after diagnosis.

 

Other than OS we've had Toby our first girl with a hemangio on her left front ankle which we had the tumor removed twice - when it came back the third time surgery was no longer an option and we did not want to do amp so we eventually had to send her to the bridge when the tumor was out of control.

 

Apollo came to us at age 12 - when he was 13.5 he got a lump above his eye which we first thought was from bumping his head. It did not go away and so we ended up doing x-rays and it turned out to be a tumor which continued to grow until it put pressure on his brain and he had a seizure and we had to send him to the bridge. We did not do surgery because of the location and his age.

 

We just adopted Mercedes at age almost 10 in March - her toe swelled up a few weeks ago and after ruling out bug bite, sting and infection we did x-rays to find she had a tumor in her toe. The vet did not see OS in the bone on the x-rays but we had to amp the toe which is now at the lab for analysis. We're hoping it's benign -

 

We've only lost one grey to non-diagnosis and that was our sweet Allie who came to us at 11 and lived to 15.5 - her old body just kind of gave up one weekend and she went in her sleep.

 

Besides Mercedes we now have Ripley age 10 and Ellie age 11 - we pray every day that they are never diagnosed with the "C" word!

 

Our very best wishes for luck to you and Neyla as you fight this battle together -

[NeylasMom]

Donna, thank you so much for sharing all of that. I'm so sorry that you've lost so many of your babies to osteo or other forms of cancer. I will be keeping Mercedes in my thoughts and hoping for a benign test result! Please let us know when you get the results back. Well I can only I have a story like yours with Elaine at some point, what a fighter your girl was.

[Jackandgrey]

Did things go downhill quickly, or did you just gradually increase/add meds over time? I hope you don't mind me asking detailed questions - I don't want to make you relive anything painful. Please ignore me if you don't want to talk about it.

 

Talking about Jack never makes me sad ! You know I put him up to Tramadol three times a day very quickly because I think it is a far more sensible schedule than twice a day. But he was only on 50 mg three times a day for most of that time. As I said, he was diagnosed in May and honestly, probably it wasn't until September that I came to truly KNOW there was really anything wrong with him. Then it was a very gradual decline till November. From then his walks became shorter until I would just put his leash and collar on and let him wander in the front yard. That satisfied his need for "going for a walk".

 

Throughout that whole time, if he overdid things, I would occasionally give him an increased dosage of Tramadol - 100mg or occasionally a 4th dose and then back down to his usual 50mgs. I also gave him Pepcid before the meal he got his Meloxicam with.

 

Jack never got on furniture ever so I didn't have to worry about that. But until the last week of his life he came upstairs to bed. When he wouldn't do that I knew we were nearing the end. I had a ramp built for the 4 steps leading out the back door. He only needed that maybe three times in the 6 months and then on his last two days.

 

His was his distal femur so he was able to spare that much easier than a shoulder but again, he rarely limped.

 

Anymore questions I will gladly answer

[NeylasMom]

Thank you again Susan. I am mostly asking to prepare myself, but then of course there's my sucky oncologist who believes that the fact that her lesion is stable is evidence that it's not cancer (give me a break, thankfully I have Dr. Couto to make some sense in all of this) so this is also helpful to me in that it reassures me not to second guess the dx. Plus, it's only been 2 1/2 months. I am assuming since there was little to no change we are lucky and have a slow progressing form, but we're not even to 3 months yet and things could change suddenly. :blah These are the conversations I have with myself constantly in case you couldn't guess.

[Jackandgrey]

Thank you again Susan. I am mostly asking to prepare myself, but then of course there's my sucky oncologist who believes that the fact that her lesion is stable is evidence that it's not cancer (give me a break, thankfully I have Dr. Couto to make some sense in all of this) so this is also helpful to me in that it reassures me not to second guess the dx. Plus, it's only been 2 1/2 months. I am assuming since there was little to no change we are lucky and have a slow progressing form, but we're not even to 3 months yet and things could change suddenly. :blah These are the conversations I have with myself constantly in case you couldn't guess.

 

Believe me I do know exactly how it is!

[Guest nikkikaye]

Jen- This is Nikki K. , mom to Ben- your fave GW foster from many yrs ago My sweet 10 yr old girl Jasmine- Ben's sister for the last 5 yrs- was just diagnosed this morning! I got on greytalk to see what to do and i saw Neyla has Osteo and I am crushed! I am so sorry for you. Unlike Neyla, I dont think Jasmine has much time. Her pain level is amazing. She can barely walk- all in the last 12 hours. Mind you- we went to a park last nite with Ben where she ran around a big open field for a while and then jumped into the back of my SUV (i use a ramp to get them down), drank water like crazy, ate a big bowl of food, pooped and seemingly went to sleep. She seemed a bit sore last nite - trouble getting up the 3 steps into the house so I gave her a tramadol I had on hand just to be sure. At 6am this am, she woke me up by gently licking my hand and she has deteriorated dramatically since then. We went to the vet where they had to give her torb just to get the xrays to confirm my worst nightmare.... altho they said its not in the lungs yet. I hope I can get 3 weeks out of her. I am so happy Neyla has had 3 months- but i wish they were under different circumsatnces. Who knows, maybe it was better I didnt know so we lived life to the fullest .. each and every second. email me if you want.. NikkiKaye@gmail.com. i am praying for you and Neyla. I remember how much you have been thru with her. I am so sad for you- AND me- and all gh's that have to go thru this dreadful experince

[Charlies_Dad]

Jen- This is Nikki K. , mom to Ben- your fave GW foster from many yrs ago My sweet 10 yr old girl Jasmine- Ben's sister for the last 5 yrs- was just diagnosed this morning! I got on greytalk to see what to do and i saw Neyla has Osteo and I am crushed! I am so sorry for you. Unlike Neyla, I dont think Jasmine has much time. Her pain level is amazing. She can barely walk- all in the last 12 hours. Mind you- we went to a park last nite with Ben where she ran around a big open field for a while and then jumped into the back of my SUV (i use a ramp to get them down), drank water like crazy, ate a big bowl of food, pooped and seemingly went to sleep. She seemed a bit sore last nite - trouble getting up the 3 steps into the house so I gave her a tramadol I had on hand just to be sure. At 6am this am, she woke me up by gently licking my hand and she has deteriorated dramatically since then. We went to the vet where they had to give her torb just to get the xrays to confirm my worst nightmare.... altho they said its not in the lungs yet. I hope I can get 3 weeks out of her. I am so happy Neyla has had 3 months- but i wish they were under different circumsatnces. Who knows, maybe it was better I didnt know so we lived life to the fullest .. each and every second. email me if you want.. NikkiKaye@gmail.com. i am praying for you and Neyla. I remember how much you have been thru with her. I am so sad for you- AND me- and all gh's that have to go thru this dreadful experince

 

 

I am sorry to hear about Jasmine. We are battling this awful disease also. We'll keep your precious girl in our thoughts.

[SarahsBlackPack]

My senior girl who had Osteo made it from may of 09 when we found out she had cancer untill Jan. 23 of this year. Our vet told us the day we put Brooke to sleep she was the oldest of the hounds and she make it the longest of all 3 Greyhounds that we dignoised will cancer all in about a months time frame.

[NeylasMom]

My senior girl who had Osteo made it from may of 09 when we found out she had cancer untill Jan. 23 of this year. Our vet told us the day we put Brooke to sleep she was the oldest of the hounds and she make it the longest of all 3 Greyhounds that we dignoised will cancer all in about a months time frame.

Hi Sarah. How old was she? Did you do x-rays throughout or did you just judge based on her pain how things were going?

 

 

Nikki, I saw you were back on the board, but had no idea why. I'm SO SO SO sorry to hear about Jasmine's dx. It just seems like a ridiculous number of dogs have been diagnosed recently and I no longer think it's just me noticing more because of Neyla either. I know you will make the right decision for Jasmine, I hope you guys have some good quality time left together. My only advice is to use pain meds generously if she is already exhibiting that much pain - I have heard through the grapevine from humans who have had bone cancer that it is incredibly painful. What I've read/heard is that it's best to use a combination of pain killers to get the best relief (Tramadol 3x/day + an NSAID (like Rimadyl, Dermaxx, or Metacam) + Gabapentin (for neurological pain). Hugs to you and please give kisses to Jasmine for me.

[NeylasMom]

Shameless final bump. I have to believe there are more dogs who have made it past 3 months. I could certainly use the positive stories in the midst of the recent dx and losses.

[Jackandgrey]

Jen, I called Jack's time with me after diagnosis, our miracle. I never expected to get 6 months. I never expected to get 2! I truly thought he would be gone in 2 weeks. I stopped focusing on all the others except where I could help, and just did my very best to live each day with him as if it was a lifetime. Although, it hurt so much when he left, it helped. Truly it did. I stopped looking into the future and counting down the days we had left. We had lifetimes, more than I ever ever imagined. I was lucky. So far you are too. Try not to count the days. They just speed by that way.

[Charlies_Dad]

Shameless final bump. I have to believe there are more dogs who have made it past 3 months. I could certainly use the positive stories in the midst of the recent dx and losses.

 

 

Jen,

 

I believe you are doing wonderful by Neyla and she will be one of the lucky ones. You have thoroughly researched what options there are, you have a plan and have taken action. While I am going a different path with Charlie than you are, you have helped many and that along with a positive attitude will allow you more time with Neyla.

 

Kyle