I have a friend that has a grey with allergies. He is doing very well on the food - Call of the Wild - I think, for allergies, but has lost a lot of weight. He has been to the vet and the vet thinks he is not absorbing the protein from the food. The vet suggests food from them. The pup has a bad heart and is on meds for that - he was born this way and is three years old. He has a clean bill of health otherwise - blood work also done.

I thought maybe someone in GT land would have some suggestions on food or could tell me of your experiences. Is there a way to get them to absorb the protein or something?

Giving him more food cannot be done, he is already getting as much as he needs or a bit more. With his allergies he can't have the "normal" stuff we would give our pups to gain weight. He has been on this food for about two months.

Thanks,
Nichole

If it's protein-losing enteropathy (PLE), it may be due to small intestinal bacterial overgrowth (SIBO), or possibly infection with mycobacteria (see the Glanemann paper from July 2008, Detection of Mycobacterium avium Subspecies paratuberculosis-Specific DNA by PCR in Intestinal Biopsies of Dogs, J Vet Intern Med 2008; 1–5).

If this is the case, the solution usually involves:

1) Treatment with antibiotics.
2) Reduction in dietary carbohydrates.

Feed raw if possible. Cut out all wheat, oats, rice, and other vegetable matter.

What Ahicks51 said I wouldn't wait. We just lost a greyhound in June to complications of Lymphangiectasia; which is a PLE. Our greyhound underwent several tests, blood, urine, fecal, bile and finally an endoscopic boipsy to determin what kind of PLE it was. Had I known then what I know now about this disease I would have taken him of commercial kibble and fed him home cooked and raw exclusively.

Not sure I understand why he can't be fed more? If he's losing weight, he *isn't* getting all that he needs.

What is he allergic to? I'm assuming the food being fed is "Taste of the Wild." That's a food with a LOT of ingredients -- nothing like an allergy diet -- so there should be a lot of room to feed him other things from among the ingredients list. It's also not a terribly high calorie food -- might need to feed more of it than of some others to keep weight on the dog.

If it's a PLE they would have trouble absorbing protien and as a result, this would cause muscle wasting. Our greyhound lost 14lbs in 6 months, 8 in the last three weeks if his life. We were feeding him high quality protien and medical gastro-intestinal kibble and everything else within reason to keep the weight on. What didn't work gave him diarrhea, which is also a problem with PLE(s).

Yes, I know about PLE, just wondering about the dog described in the original post and whether in fact it is PLE or an allergy/intolerance or simply not getting enough calories. Most dogs with dramatic weight loss don't have PLE. Been a couple on this board recently who had specific food intolerance and nothing worse.

I'm just throwing this out here, but what about Pancreatic Insufficiency? My Dalmatian suffered from that--she couldn't digest animal products (or anything else, really). I had to give her Viokase powder for digestion--she required a large dose. She also was on Purina Canine EN prescription food. She could only have a couple of treats--carrots and hot air popcorn (I didn't know about Burpdog biscuits while she was alive). The reason I mention PI is that it causes terrible weight loss, even with a normal food intake, unless supplements are given and the diet is strictly monitored. Apparently it took some time to diagnose (her previous owners had her at the time) -- their vet went through several possibilities -- and she was skin and bones despite eating constantly. Is the dog constantly hungry and does he have runny stools? Those are common PI issues.

My greyhound has/had SIBO. It's under control now and he is thriving since I put him on a special diet. He was underweight despite eating twice the amount recommended for his weight and was still losing weight. I thought he was a goner. But I put him on a lean, raw diet and now he is fine. He couldn't digest anything other than meat & bone, no carbs, veggies, fruits, treats, nothing but meat & bone. I tried cooked meat with added calcium supplement (I used bone meal), but he digested raw much better than cooked.

A dog with malabsorption needs much more food than "the amount listed on the bag" and more calories than the charts state. That's because recommendations are based on healthy digestive systems that adequately absorb nutrients.

My greyhound is now at a healthy weight and eats 125%-150% the amount recommended for his weight in order to maintain. When he was underweight and I was trying to get weight on him, I fed him much more food, about twice as much as he is getting now. But rather than give him two large meals per day, I gave him four meals per day. When he got close to a healthy weight, I cut back to three meals per day. And when he finally achieved a healthy weight, I started feeding him twice per day.

Some chart may state that a dog is getting adequate nutrition. But if it is losing weight, then nutrition is not adequate. The dog needs more food or a different kind of food.

I agree with this post. Have they tried increasing the amount of food?

Do the owners know what exactly the dog is allergic to? The current food might not agree with him, and maybe they should switch.

Have they treated for bacterial or parasitological causes? (Even if tests were negative).

Has the dog been tested for anything like PLE or SIBO?

To answer some of the questions - yes, she knows what he is allergic to, he is getting fed 6 cups a day and is losing weight. She is very limited on what she can feed him. It took a long time to sort out the allegies - switching foods, etc.

I thank everyone for their advice and will pass it on.

Could be, you're probably right and have way more practial experience than I do. I only know about PLE becasue of going through this with our Walter. Of course the owners/vet should be runnnig all the proper tests to be sure, it sounds like he has a lot of other medical issues too.

Just to clarify--PLE is not a condition that the gut can't absorb protein---it's actually protein being lost through the gut. I might be dating myself but, way back when it's layman's call name was "leaky gut syndrome". I think you would have to consider many other diseases--Malabsorbtion-pancreatic insufficiency-Liver dysfunction.... Of course depending on the diagnoses that would determine the treatment course. I can say with my own dog that was diagnosed with IBD/PLE the only thing that literally saved he's life was steriods but, that was only given to him after extensive diagnostics. Perhaps a referral would be recommended this this point. Might be a good idea to have a cardiologist do a follow up too.

6 cups sounds like a lot of food ... but if it's Taste of the Wild, those 6 cups would be equivalent to 3.75-4.5 cups of a higher calorie food like Innova or Purina ONE. A lot, but not unheard of for a young dog. What weight did he race at, or what should he weigh?

How long has the pup been in the home? When did the problem start? Any info on what he was fed, and how much, before he came to the home?

If his weight loss is gradual -- well, heck, even if it isn't -- It might be worth her taking the elements of the food that she knows he can have in terms of his allergies, and feeding only those. If it's salmon and chicken fat, then salmon and chicken fat, KWIM? That might improve things while she seeks further diagnostics for him.

What makes the vet think he's not absorbing the protein?

Ryan pees out more protein than his body can make. He stays at a pretty constant weight. But his issue is losing the protein, not absorbing it in the first place.

Are digestive enzymes something that could work for this? I don't really know much about losing protein, but just wanted to throw it out there. I've seen it recommended for dogs who are not getting all the nutrients from the food and weight gain often follows. It would be an easy thing to try anyway.

I'm on the fence about digestive enzymes for management of this type of thing. Ideally, amylases would help in that they break down starches which would otherwise go to feed "bad" bacteria- the root of the problem. But if you back up one step and just don't feed starches (i.e., get rid of the vegetable matter), then it's not even an issue.

Proteases are kind of concerning as it's not a matter of the animal not digesting protein; moreover, the body of an animal is *made* of protein. I'm not sure I want to consume something made by Generic Company #12 that digests protein being put into my system, supplements being what they are.

The other enzymes- lipases, cellulase, invertase, lactase, sucrases- are either unnecessary, or unnecessary provided the animal is not fed carbohydrates.