We currently feed Canidae, but are considering switching to the BARF diet. Violet has some allergy and skin troubles and we hope this will help. Any thoughts? Also, would it be okay to feed kibble in the morning and BARF at night?????

I'm also thinking of switching to BARF. I just ordered a book by Kymythy Schultz. The kennel manager at our local adoption kennel feeds all her own dogs BARF, and she told me she does give them kibble daily as a bed time treat, just to keep their systems used to it. She has several dogs, and when she's away and someone else has to feed them, they get kibble to make it easier for the sitter.

Your situation sounds identical to our's. Omar is on Canidae and is doing very well. That said, he does seem to do a fair amount of itching/scratching/knibbling. (yes, he as all appropriate meds/preven etc.)
ANYWAY......after bombarding Cindy with Q's (thanks for being so nice, Cind) I just finished Kymythy Schultze's "The Ultimate Diet" and am now subscribed to no less than 5 mailgroups dedicated to BARF, and we are DEFINITELY making the switch. Besides allergies, seeing him eat meat from raw bones and what he gets from the whole experience has me convinced. Also, I am lucky to have a HUGE market with all sorts of meat/veg purveyors that is less than 5 minutes away.

Below are some links that were especially helpful.


http://www.njboxers.com/faqs.htm

http://www.agilityboxer.com/barfpage.htm

Good luck,

Jack


P.S. One last thing. When I asked our Vet, who is phenomenal with Omar, about BARF his response was, and I QUOTE "I am not familiar with that BRAND......but "Science Diet" is coming out with a new......blah, blah, blah.
UNBELIEVABLE! Many people involved with/feed BARF have much more experience when it comes to nutrition or feeding RAW than most (not all) vets AND they have no vested interest in doing so. Do your research and make your own decision.

I'm switching Howie over now as we speak. We've been doing a complete BARF meal every other day (also trying to use up the kibble) and it's going well. Firm poops, no diarrhea, I DO see less scratching and he seems to have a lot of energy. The only problem we've had so far is learning to crunch and chew rather than swallow whole. I've opted to use RMBs larger than chicken wings for this reason. Definitely get the Kymythy Schulze book. It is very helpful. Also, would suggest subscribing to the Naturally Grey list on Yahoo. The people on the list are very well-informed and will tackle any question (..as will the folks on Greytalk who feed BARF!!! )

I'm sooooo happy to see all the BARFers are coming out of the closet!
Think of all those happy healthy greys.

lonnie183...I think it's ok to feed one meal kibble and the other BARF. Just don't mix the kibble with the raw (I did that and was told it's not good for the digestion).

salemgrey...have you tried adding a digestive enzyme to the meal? In the beginning I did and I had no problems so I stopped. Then I noticed bits of bone in his poop. I thought it was normal until I read he isn't digesting all of the bone. I added the enzyme back into his food and poops look good.

Sniff sniff ... I was all alone here for the longest time!! I am very glad that other people are researching and deciding to give their dogs a more healthy and natural diet.

I cannot stress enough how much research should be done before doing any home prepared diet. I know I sound like a broken record (!) but I very strongly suggest anyone interested in a raw or cooked home prepared diet to read at least ONE (preferably several) of the following texts:

The Ultimate Diet by Kymtyty Schultz


Give Your Dog a Bone by Ian Billinghurst (he has 3 books -- GYDAB is the best, IMO but all 3 are worth the read. His book on raising puppies is a good information source but may not provide the information one is looking for).

Dr. Pitcairn's Complete Guide to Natural Health ... by Richard Pitcairn and Susan Hubble Pitcairn

Holistic Guide to a Healthy Dog by Wendy Volhard and Kerry Brown

Natural Animal Healing By Martin Goldstein, DVM

Also, the following web-sites may be useful:

Naturally Grey

Dr. Billinghurst's Page

Dr. Tom Lonsdale's Raw Meaty Bones Page

B.A.R.F. Page (a good resource page)

Barf Pictoral

Perhaps the most important to read if you're just considering tossing something together:

Natural Diet - Don't JUST DO IT! (this site has tons of great info)

I hope this helps some!!!!!

Cindy
BARF since Dec 1999

I too, am considering the move to BARF. I'm feeding Canidae with great results and no problems, but I want to do best by Cat. I plan on getting a book before I make the change.

2 questions:
Cost-wise, what is the difference from feeding a higher price kibble such as Canidae? Is BARF cheaper, more expenseive? About the same?

Can little dogs eat BARF as well? Peanut is about 14 pounds, but definitely an eater!

WOW Cindy!!! Great info. You were a great help to me when I started to BARF 4 months ago. I was scared and you held my hand...thanks. Now it looks like you are not alone our numbers are growing.

You're right I did a lot of research before I started and I still am learning.

Here's one more helpful site I learned about from Naturally Grey. Someone is putting together "Meat Cut Pictorials" for people that don't know what certain cuts of meat look like.

On the bottom of the page people are posting pic's of thier feeding routines. Ellie,Tannu & Flyers are very helpful in how a meal is prepared.

www.bpmurphy.com/laura/DogRoom/BARF/feeding_barf.htm

Becky - I buy my raw meaty bones through a wholesaler (my local co-op) -- 40 lbs of chicken backs for $25. THat lasts about one month with Thunder, who gets ~1.5 pounds per day.

In addition, I provide several meals per week of ground beef/ground veggies.

Probably another ~$10-15 for ground meat and veggies.

The remainder is stuff I'd add whether he was kibbled or BARFed or home cooked.

THe overall investment might be more but the long term rewards are worth it. No more dentals for Thunder (3.5 years and no dental) ( Look at his teeth ). Additionally, I personally believe that a home prepared diet is superior and provides more usable nutrients.

Can a little one do it? Yes! Just have to have little bones Chicken wings or chicken necks would be good little RMBs for tiny dogs. You might wish to look specifically for a group/board for small dog BARFers (I'm sure there is one out there!).

Cindy -- Thank you so much! I'll check out all the web information, and get a book or two. I hope to get started BARFing in the next month or two. There is a butcher near here, so I'll go look at his prices.

I'm really excited about this new adventure!

I get some better deals than Cindy- I pay $.38/lb for Bell and Evans chicken backs and necks, $.25/lb for plainfield farms turkey necks- all are "natural"- no hormones, antibiotics, $.50/lb for ground turkey, $.80/lb for chicken hearts and livers and every so often we splurge with whole chickens or whole ox tails they run more. I will also buy natural lamb and buffalo when our buying group does a special order- that runs more but the people like it too Actually- the people take advantage of all the deals- I bought a vaccuum packer to pack the people food to prevent freezer burn- the dogs don't seem to mind and they go through their food faster than we do.

I think we probably pay about the same as it cost to feed kibble maybe less depending on that week's diet. We do save money on dental care as Cindy mentioned- it's been over 5 years since my 9+ year olds last dental and his teeth are still very nice and Chloe's teeth are fabulous- bright white shiny.

Forgot to add tht I helped a co-worker change over her min pin- 10 lb of dog. He does great- he eats mostly chicken necks and parts of backs and I gave him a section of turkey neck that he powered through. He also get various gournd meats and veggies. Having one small dog, his owner can take advantage of the commerically prepared raw foods for him as well making the whole process easy. We figured 40lbs of chicken necks (1 box from the distributor) would last him 6 months!

Man, my Bell and Evans chicken parts are sooo expensive!! Must be because I'm way out here in WI! I tried to find truly organic chickies and would have to pay upward of $4 / lb

Is your ground turkey B&E, too?

Not quite organic but the best I can find at a price I can afford- the humans and hounds eat the same quality meats and vegetables.

http://www.bellandevans.com/ourstory/ourstory.htm

Is it okay for a senior hound to switch over to BARF? Cat's 11. Should I do it very gradually?

It varies dog to dog- you culd try by feeding her one meal raw and one of kibble for a while to see how she fairs. You can mix veggies and raw meat but the raw meaty bones portion- chicken backs, necks etc- should be fed separate from kibble by several hours.

We switched a friend's dog over a 12 and he did well for another 2.5 years- sadly he crossed the bridge this morning.

I would encourage you to sign up for NaturallyGrey- there are many people there who have changed over senior greyhounds and they have a lot of good advice to offer a newbie.

so sorry to hear that your pupper passed. Obviously you cared for him very much.

He belonged to a good friend and was very much loved. It was a very sad morning.

I have to admit I am sitting here chuckling but glad to see someone in Greyts deiscussing BARF diets. I am new to fostering/rescue of Greyts and the few times I have mentioned BARF, boy, did I get looks. :-) I was active in another breed for years and know many breeders that use strictly a BARF diet or a combination of BARF and kibble. I don't use BARF myself but do give our Greyt raw turkey necks once or twice a week and large beef *knuckle* bones, mainly to help his dental health. He wasn't sure what to do with the necks at first bur he caught on quick. :-)
Now, this is going to sound odd but the breed I had often had skin problems. A Vet in Arizona recommended Pedigree MealTime. I kid you not. Our Greyt had very dry, flaky skin when we got him and his coat was in poor condition. On the recommendation of the Vet who takes care of the dogs in our area, he was put on Eukanuba. I tried the oil but he had a loose stool. Nothing ventured/nothing gained. I picked up the MealTime and mix it with the Eukanuba. For his evening mean, he also gets a few of the Science Diet Dental Large Breed kibble, which he loves. On this food combination plus the turkey necks, his skin is in Greyt condition and his coat is getting nice and healthy. Think I'll stick with this plan for a while.

bumping

Thanks Cindy. I had forgot about this thread and those greyt links you provided. Some of them I need to go back and have a look at.