Immune Mediated Polyarthritis - Looking For Advice

[Guest Jaybird]

Well, it's been a LOOOOOONG 6 months, but we finally have a possible diagnosis for Cash.

 

http://forum.greytalk.com/index.php/topic/281563-i-dont-know-what-to-do-long-post/page__st__20__p__5137160#entry5137160

and

http://forum.greytalk.com/index.php/topic/282155-update-on-cash/page__p__5144926#entry5144926

 

I would love to hear from others who have dealt with a Grey with Immune Mediated Polyarthritis and l would be greatful for whatever kind of advice you have for me. We haven't had him officially tested for it, but from what I understand he has all the classic symptoms. We were unable to find any primary disease that could have caused it.

 

Jennifer

[greyhead]

http://forum.greytalk.com/index.php/topic/224938-degenerative-arthritis-advice/page__hl__IMPA

Since no one with experience has come forward yet, I checked and found this thread I'd saved from 2009. Post #17 has some good info from Jordan. At least it will get you started. Hugs to you and scritches to Cash!

[Guest Jaybird]

Thanks, I did a search earlier and found some info. Just wanted to see if anyone currently was dealing with the same thing.

[Batmom]

Did the enlarged spleen from earlier get resolved?

[Guest LittleGreys]

My girl Munchie has been battling IMPA, erosive polyathritis of Greyhounds, for several years. You can do a search and find some threads on her. She had progressed to the point that all her joints have deteriorated to bone on bone. She was on high doses of pred, gabapentin and tramadol. I was to the point that I knew euthanasia would be the kindest option and that she didn't have long left. Fortunately, I called a local vet to get some info about acupucture, which he told me he didn't think would help, but he urged me to try stem cell therapy. I did some research on stem cell therapy and took her to have it done. That was 6 weeks ago and she is showing tremendous improvement. It has been 7 weeks since the procedure. Her xrays show joint space now, fluid in the joints, smoothing of the bone. She has gone from 200mg of gabapentin a day to 0, from 300mg of tramadol a day to 25mg. Her pred dose is down to 15mg. It is amazing. I only wish I had found out about it 2 years ago. I cannot express how grateful we are that we found out about this procedure. It literally saved her life. She is happier, more energetic, she gets up and down with ease now. Its truly amazing after only 7 weeks!!

[jimsherriek]

You have all my thoughts and prayers for your precious Cash. I paid for the biopsy tests on my Izzy to speed the diagnosis. He responded well to the treatment at first. It was an amazing transformation. Go for it, it does not really bother the pups too much. The shaved spots bothered Izzy more than the biopsy sites. If Izzy had been starved before I got him and had damage to his liver and kidneys already. I would still have him today if not for that damage when this disease reared it's ugly head the second time, he just had nothing left to fight with. Your Cash hopefully does not have the challenges that Izzy had.

 

If you can afford the biopsy, it is the best way to find out and treat the disease quickly.

 

You are in my thoughts and prayers.

Sherrie

[JJNg]

Immune-mediated polyarthritis (IMPA) is a fairly straightforward diagnosis made by doing joint taps. However, this doesn't distinguish whether it is primary or secondary. IMPA doesn't seem to explain all of the earlier signs that Cash showed, but it can certainly be a chronic or secondary consequence of tick-borne disease. As I'd mentioned in the previous thread, there are some vague similarities between Cash's case and my girl Willow's illness that make me suspicious of an underlying TBD like Bartonella.

 

I've treated a dog who developed IMPA secondary to Lyme disease, as well as my own greyhound who we (me along with the specialists I consulted) believe developed it secondary to a suspected Bartonella infection, despite being unable to confirm the Bartonella with multiple tests. When polyarthritis is secondary to infectious disease, it is usually non-erosive. I suspect that erosive polyarthritis, like Munchie's case, is more often primary or idiopathic.

 

If there's any suspicion of underlying infection causing the IMPA, I'm more comfortable treating with a combination of appropriate antibiotics along with the anti-inflammatory/immunosuppressive drugs needed to treat the polyarthritis. Here's a previous post I made in a reply to another thread with more details about Willow's illness and treatment.

[Guest HHHounds]

My Candyman had this in addition to CHF. He was on numerous medications to keep it at bay and would have odd infections that would appear in various organs - eyes, nose, skin... We were constant patients at the vets office. We would have to monitor his various conditions and adjust medication as needed. It took a lot of time and attention, but I would have done anything for that sweet hound! He went to the bridge in June when his CHF had advanced too far for a happy hound...

[Guest Jaybird]

Did the enlarged spleen from earlier get resolved?

 

Ya know....nothing has been said about it since that day. Hmmm...

 

My girl Munchie has been battling IMPA, erosive polyathritis of Greyhounds, for several years. You can do a search and find some threads on her. She had progressed to the point that all her joints have deteriorated to bone on bone. She was on high doses of pred, gabapentin and tramadol. I was to the point that I knew euthanasia would be the kindest option and that she didn't have long left. Fortunately, I called a local vet to get some info about acupucture, which he told me he didn't think would help, but he urged me to try stem cell therapy. I did some research on stem cell therapy and took her to have it done. That was 6 weeks ago and she is showing tremendous improvement. It has been 7 weeks since the procedure. Her xrays show joint space now, fluid in the joints, smoothing of the bone. She has gone from 200mg of gabapentin a day to 0, from 300mg of tramadol a day to 25mg. Her pred dose is down to 15mg. It is amazing. I only wish I had found out about it 2 years ago. I cannot express how grateful we are that we found out about this procedure. It literally saved her life. She is happier, more energetic, she gets up and down with ease now. Its truly amazing after only 7 weeks!!

 

Thank you so much for this info! I will surely look into it. And I am so happy to hear that she is doing better!! :0)

 

You have all my thoughts and prayers for your precious Cash. I paid for the biopsy tests on my Izzy to speed the diagnosis. He responded well to the treatment at first. It was an amazing transformation. Go for it, it does not really bother the pups too much. The shaved spots bothered Izzy more than the biopsy sites. If Izzy had been starved before I got him and had damage to his liver and kidneys already. I would still have him today if not for that damage when this disease reared it's ugly head the second time, he just had nothing left to fight with. Your Cash hopefully does not have the challenges that Izzy had.

 

If you can afford the biopsy, it is the best way to find out and treat the disease quickly.

 

You are in my thoughts and prayers.

Sherrie

 

Thank you Sherrie. I'm sorry for your loss of Izzy.

[Guest Jaybird]

Immune-mediated polyarthritis (IMPA) is a fairly straightforward diagnosis made by doing joint taps. However, this doesn't distinguish whether it is primary or secondary. IMPA doesn't seem to explain all of the earlier signs that Cash showed, but it can certainly be a chronic or secondary consequence of tick-borne disease. As I'd mentioned in the previous thread, there are some vague similarities between Cash's case and my girl Willow's illness that make me suspicious of an underlying TBD like Bartonella.

 

I've treated a dog who developed IMPA secondary to Lyme disease, as well as my own greyhound who we (me along with the specialists I consulted) believe developed it secondary to a suspected Bartonella infection, despite being unable to confirm the Bartonella with multiple tests. When polyarthritis is secondary to infectious disease, it is usually non-erosive. I suspect that erosive polyarthritis, like Munchie's case, is more often primary or idiopathic.

 

If there's any suspicion of underlying infection causing the IMPA, I'm more comfortable treating with a combination of appropriate antibiotics along with the anti-inflammatory/immunosuppressive drugs needed to treat the polyarthritis. Here's a previous post I made in a reply to another thread with more details about Willow's illness and treatment.

 

Thank you for all the info. I have a lot to read through.

He has been tested for all types of TBD and various other dieseas and everything came back negative. He was also on months of three different antibiotics that should have killed just about anything, LOL. We are currently doing low dose of Pred and just started Imuran this week along with some suppliments. I am happy to report that this weekend when we went camping he was more active than he has been in months and acutally played a bit! :-)

 

My Candyman had this in addition to CHF. He was on numerous medications to keep it at bay and would have odd infections that would appear in various organs - eyes, nose, skin... We were constant patients at the vets office. We would have to monitor his various conditions and adjust medication as needed. It took a lot of time and attention, but I would have done anything for that sweet hound! He went to the bridge in June when his CHF had advanced too far for a happy hound...

 

I am so sorry for your loss of Candyman!

[Guest FastDogsOwnMe]

I had one that had it We had to PTS at two years He was a kennel favorite. I have many photos of his last beach trip.

 

He lived at the kennel, but I took him home all the time for water therapy... sweet boy.

[Guest KimK]

I have a girl (Julie Newmar - now known as "Cat") who was diagnosed with IMPA after joint taps. Long story but after reading through this thread, I would have to say she probably developed it due to a TBD or something that happened first. So many things lined up to lead us in other directions that it was pretty much impossible to come up with what was really going on. We found her practically passed out in her pet kennel when I was at a track to pick up fosters for our adoption group. She was 12 days post-spay and had seemed fine before. She was rushed to the vet to see if she had some raging infection or something taking hold (high temp along with no appetite, diarrhea, etc.) Bloodwork was done and antibiotics & fluids started to try and save her - the vet really didn't think she was going to make it. I wanted to take her home right then but it was a 9-hour trip and the vet honestly didn't think she would survive it. After a couple of days at the vet on fluids and antibiotics, she went to a foster home to watch over her and run her back and forth to the vet. She wasn't doing well but after about 3 weeks, he finally released her so we went back down and picked her up.

 

We went through several months of pure he*l. Ran every TBD test, e.coli, etc., etc. - things I'd never heard of before (hepatazoonosis was one) and never got a positive result on anything. The antibiotics/meds that likely saved Cat's life in the beginning might've masked some of the answers we were looking for. Based on her symptoms, she went on medications. She would respond to a given combination for a while and then start sliding again...change the medication and she would get better and then slide. At our lowest low, she went from her appx 53# racing weight down to 41#. Through it all though, there were only a couple of different times where she lost her appetite - but that was never for long and she'd rally. She was only 3 years old when all this started.

 

Ultimately, one of the drug cocktails got her on track and she finally came around and never slid backwards. While we never knew what was "cured" or have definite answers for anything, knowing she was feeling better and seeing her playing was enough. It was very puzzling though because throughout this whole ordeal, she had an off and on limp in her right back leg. Everything had been x-rayed to see if there was an old injury or anything but nothing showed up. Even after she was feeling better and looking good again as far as her weight, that limp would be there. Finally decided to take her to Louisville (LVSES) and see about an MRI. The vet did a neurological exam and found nothing that she felt would indicate the need for the MRI - Cat was reacting and responding normally to everything the vet did. She asked to take her back for the Internal Medicine folks to have a look at her and go through her history. That's when they asked if they could tap her joints. Initially, they were looking for any sign of infection in the joints which if found, might've been treated and possibly put an end to it. Unfortunately, that came back negative and IMPA was diagnosed.

 

This was Dec 2010. Cat was started on medication and followed up with regular bloodwork to watch for side effects while we waited to see if she would go into remission. We tried to wean her off at one point but you could tell her pain ramped back up so we kept on. She did great for a few months but then developed a sudden case of pancreatitis. One of the medications was changed and she bounced right back. After a few more months, we started weaning her off again and this time it worked. By Oct 2011, she was totally drug free.

 

In a nutshell, I met Cat in the kennel the end of March 2010 and went back to get her April 23. Made it through whatever TBD or other undetermined disease that had knocked her down in the first place, but still had the lameness. Her joints were tapped Dec 23, 2010 and IMPA was diagnosed. In August 2011, her joints were tapped again and the results came back normal!! She was fully weaned from all medication by late October 2011. She is considered in remission. She gets to romp and play as much as she wants and just has to be watched in case symptoms would come back.

 

Cat is currently a very happy - and healthy - girl who will celebrate her 5th birthday in June! She LOVES stuffies, tug-of-war, and running with the other greyhounds! She is on no medications at this time however I do give her Joint Health (from Springtime Inc) and fish oil.

[Guest Jaybird]

I have a girl (Julie Newmar - now known as "Cat") who was diagnosed with IMPA after joint taps. Long story but after reading through this thread, I would have to say she probably developed it due to a TBD or something that happened first. So many things lined up to lead us in other directions that it was pretty much impossible to come up with what was really going on. We found her practically passed out in her pet kennel when I was at a track to pick up fosters for our adoption group. She was 12 days post-spay and had seemed fine before. She was rushed to the vet to see if she had some raging infection or something taking hold (high temp along with no appetite, diarrhea, etc.) Bloodwork was done and antibiotics & fluids started to try and save her - the vet really didn't think she was going to make it. I wanted to take her home right then but it was a 9-hour trip and the vet honestly didn't think she would survive it. After a couple of days at the vet on fluids and antibiotics, she went to a foster home to watch over her and run her back and forth to the vet. She wasn't doing well but after about 3 weeks, he finally released her so we went back down and picked her up.

 

We went through several months of pure he*l. Ran every TBD test, e.coli, etc., etc. - things I'd never heard of before (hepatazoonosis was one) and never got a positive result on anything. The antibiotics/meds that likely saved Cat's life in the beginning might've masked some of the answers we were looking for. Based on her symptoms, she went on medications. She would respond to a given combination for a while and then start sliding again...change the medication and she would get better and then slide. At our lowest low, she went from her appx 53# racing weight down to 41#. Through it all though, there were only a couple of different times where she lost her appetite - but that was never for long and she'd rally. She was only 3 years old when all this started.

 

Ultimately, one of the drug cocktails got her on track and she finally came around and never slid backwards. While we never knew what was "cured" or have definite answers for anything, knowing she was feeling better and seeing her playing was enough. It was very puzzling though because throughout this whole ordeal, she had an off and on limp in her right back leg. Everything had been x-rayed to see if there was an old injury or anything but nothing showed up. Even after she was feeling better and looking good again as far as her weight, that limp would be there. Finally decided to take her to Louisville (LVSES) and see about an MRI. The vet did a neurological exam and found nothing that she felt would indicate the need for the MRI - Cat was reacting and responding normally to everything the vet did. She asked to take her back for the Internal Medicine folks to have a look at her and go through her history. That's when they asked if they could tap her joints. Initially, they were looking for any sign of infection in the joints which if found, might've been treated and possibly put an end to it. Unfortunately, that came back negative and IMPA was diagnosed.

 

This was Dec 2010. Cat was started on medication and followed up with regular bloodwork to watch for side effects while we waited to see if she would go into remission. We tried to wean her off at one point but you could tell her pain ramped back up so we kept on. She did great for a few months but then developed a sudden case of pancreatitis. One of the medications was changed and she bounced right back. After a few more months, we started weaning her off again and this time it worked. By Oct 2011, she was totally drug free.

 

In a nutshell, I met Cat in the kennel the end of March 2010 and went back to get her April 23. Made it through whatever TBD or other undetermined disease that had knocked her down in the first place, but still had the lameness. Her joints were tapped Dec 23, 2010 and IMPA was diagnosed. In August 2011, her joints were tapped again and the results came back normal!! She was fully weaned from all medication by late October 2011. She is considered in remission. She gets to romp and play as much as she wants and just has to be watched in case symptoms would come back.

 

Cat is currently a very happy - and healthy - girl who will celebrate her 5th birthday in June! She LOVES stuffies, tug-of-war, and running with the other greyhounds! She is on no medications at this time however I do give her Joint Health (from Springtime Inc) and fish oil.

 

Thank you so much! You gave me much hope and I am so happy to hear that she is doing good! :0)

[sweetdogs]

That's wonderful that Cat is doing so well (I love the reference to her race name LOL). Do you remember what protocol she was on?

 

Best wishes for Cash.